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sanshee
sanshee
1080 posts

Re: Zappa
Feb 25, 2010, 17:27
IanB wrote:

Have you seen the Zappa Plays Zappa band?


Yeah, they show em regularly on SkyArts.

They do justice to that guitar noise he had, those sharp floaty notes and no blues cliches to be found, despite some serious fretwork at times.

TBH, I'm sure there's more of Zappa I'd like I don't know about, but I get a real sense of what to avoid.

Probably a good enough basis for anyone thinkiong of trying him out.

:-)

x
Dog 3000
Dog 3000
4611 posts

Edited Feb 25, 2010, 18:18
Re: Zappa
Feb 25, 2010, 18:16
I think he was "sincere" in his potty-joking. You have to remember he came around about the same time as the "sexual revolution" and "legalized porn", and everything I've read indicates he was an active participant in such things (seems his marriage to Gail was "open" -- he had lots of girlfriends on the road.)

His muse was always informed by stuff going on in the larger culture at the time (from Watts to the PMRC . . . ) I think his "sexual commentary" is of a piece with the rest of his "social commentary."

While certainly aware of the commercial appeal of references to sex (and boogers and other bodily functions), the actual meaning of these references is a real mixed bag.

Take "Punky's Whips" for example -- record company cut this track originally because it was "obscene." In the song, Terry Bozzio describes in rather vivid detail his sexual fantasies towards another guy, Punky Meadows from the band Angel. Is the song anti-gay or pro-gay? Would the record company have been OK with the track if the singer was talking about coming in a girl's mouth instead of a guy's? At the end of the day, it raises all sorts of questions . . . the lyrics may be a "turn off" but it makes ya think about sex and how "society" views various kinds of activities. (I'm not saying what this song "means", just that it is an invitation to think things over for yourself . . . )

Or more simply: like Jon Waters, Zappa is a button-pusher. He wants to push the audience out of their confort zone and "see what happens."
Deepinder Cheema
Deepinder Cheema
1972 posts

Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 02:57
I enjoyed this remarkable footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ti0BRmh2ew

She starts off like how Benny Hill introduced a straight music number in amongst the ribaldry.
IanB
IanB
6761 posts

Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 12:19
You are a fine advocate.

The more I read about FZ and the more I listen to the music the more I feel that he pitied rock music fans and despised rock musicians in general. Which doesn't sit well with me. I can see where he is coming from to some extent but it doesn't sit well with me to see someone pissing on the hand that feeds.
Moon Cat
9577 posts

Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 12:25
That's been one of my psychic obstacles into getting into Zappa, although I've liked most of what I've heard. I don't mind taking the piss but I draw the line at being sneered at and also I have to wonder, why play it if it's so 'beneath' you?

Still, ultimately I'm open to hearing more.
IanB
IanB
6761 posts

Edited Feb 26, 2010, 12:38
Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 12:35
Moon Cat wrote:
That's been one of my psychic obstacles into getting into Zappa, although I've liked most of what I've heard. I don't mind taking the piss but I draw the line at being sneered at and also I have to wonder, why play it if it's so 'beneath' you?

Still, ultimately I'm open to hearing more.


That's what pissed me off about Jon Anderson - it's the "I shouldn't have to be here doing this for you assholes" thing. I see that a lot from sidemen/women who think they should be the star of the show but I really resent paying money out for tickets only to be treated like a fool by the beneficiary.

That said "Boulez Plays Zappa" and "The Yellow Shark" are great recordings of modern classical music in their own right - quite seperate from FZ's whole "Libertarian of Rock" shtick. And I DO like a lot of his rock recordings and his whole Carolos-Santana-Discovers-Serialism guitar style can be pretty thrilling at times.
The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 12:40
IanB wrote:
Moon Cat wrote:
That's been one of my psychic obstacles into getting into Zappa, although I've liked most of what I've heard. I don't mind taking the piss but I draw the line at being sneered at and also I have to wonder, why play it if it's so 'beneath' you?

Still, ultimately I'm open to hearing more.


That's what pissed me off about Jon Anderson - it's the "I shouldn't have to be here doing this for you assholes" thing. I see that a lot from sidemen/women who think they should be the star of the show but I really resent paying money out for tickets only to be treated like a fool by the beneficiary.

That said "Boulez Plays Zappa" and "The Yellow Shark" are great recordings of modern classical music in their own right - quite seperate from FZ's whole "Libertarian of Rock" shtick. And I DO like a lot of his rock recordings and his whole Carolos-Santana-Discovers-Serialism guitar style can be pretty thrilling at times.


Jon Anderson? What's the story there. I always thought he seemed a reasonable enough guy who was replaced by a tribute artist because he was in poor health.
handofdave
handofdave
3515 posts

Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 12:59
Zappa considered himself a Jazz composer, but I don't know that the Jazz elite ever welcomed him in. I think that has something to do with his anger... He drips with that know-it-all arrogance that usually masks deep insecurity.

He'd go after easy targets... stereotypes of the vapid American teen... as if somehow he'd been forced to suffer not just their presence, but their patronage too.

It's easy to be aloof when one's slumming... harder to swim with the sort of fish that you imagine yourself to be.

The snarky stuff where Zappa puts down his audience.... reminds me of Roger Waters to a degree. A very aloof, pseudo-intellectual air of self-importance surrounds both of these guys.
handofdave
handofdave
3515 posts

Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 13:04
Yeah, his guitar playing is exceptional, and definitely rescues my evaluation of him overall.
IanB
IanB
6761 posts

Edited Feb 26, 2010, 13:26
Re: Zappa
Feb 26, 2010, 13:26
handofdave wrote:
The snarky stuff where Zappa puts down his audience.... reminds me of Roger Waters to a degree. A very aloof, pseudo-intellectual air of self-importance surrounds both of these guys.


Yes that is a very astute observation. Roger Waters seems to have suffered a violent allergic reaction to his fellow human beings that is often the fate of the idealistic liberal humanists. Then again how many successful artists are not self-serving solipsists to some degree?

I don't think FZ had much hope of being feted as a jazz composer - nothing to do with the colour of his skin I just think his music is way too clenched and uptight and lacking in swing but as a second tier classical composer he was pretty deent I think.
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