Squid Tempest
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 13:29
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suave harv wrote: I'll put my cards on the table here. We have a system of writing music, it involves treble and bass clefs (amongst others), minims, crotchets, quavers, all that stuff. Now all the people you quote, from Stravinsky to Elvis, make music and you can sit down and you can write the melody on a piece of paper. Written music. THAT'S WHAT MUSIC IS!!!!!!! (pant!)
You're confusing the map with the territory. The music isn't the stuff written on the page - you can't listen to a piece of paper. The written stuff is merely an aide memoire. As for staves, clefs etc, what about traditional African music? You don't see that on staves. What about John Cage and graphic scores? Is that not music? What about microtonal music or eastern scales? Just because something can't be represented using the standard western system doesn't mean it isn't music.
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suave harv
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 13:43
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Squid Tempest wrote:
You're confusing the map with the territory. The music isn't the stuff written on the page - you can't listen to a piece of paper. The written stuff is merely an aide memoire. As for staves, clefs etc, what about traditional African music? You don't see that on staves. What about John Cage and graphic scores? Is that not music? What about microtonal music or eastern scales? Just because something can't be represented using the standard western system doesn't mean it isn't music.
Like anything, there are grey areas. Is a six foot skateboard with a motor on the back technically a car? If I put a slate roof on my tent, is it then a house?
There's no black or white in most things and you're arguing the grey. I'm trying to point out that call something music we need a reference point, just like we need to call anything anything. And the three rules of music can be mapped using written music. I'd imagine most music that involves any of the three aspects can be written down, using whatever method, western or not. Improvised music too (I play improvised mostly, before someone accuses me of being a dot-reader).
I'm using written music as an example of what the definition of what music is. I worded it wrong saying written music is what music IS, of course, it's not. But you get my drift, it's a way we can illustrate the difference between what is defined as music, and what is simply noise.
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suave harv
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 13:47
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Look, I've got to go now. But I've enjoyed (and spent too much time) on this thread. Cheers everyone. I've taken all your points on board. There's food for thought.
Funny, I'm off to do a little piano playing stint at a local nursery group now (a regular Wednesday afternoon thing). I'll be sure to play Baa Baa Black Sheep in honor of this thread!
Love on ya!
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Kid Calamity
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 13:51
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Ha!
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Squid Tempest
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 14:02
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suave harv wrote: Look, I've got to go now. But I've enjoyed (and spent too much time) on this thread. Cheers everyone. I've taken all your points on board. There's food for thought.
Funny, I'm off to do a little piano playing stint at a local nursery group now (a regular Wednesday afternoon thing). I'll be sure to play Baa Baa Black Sheep in honor of this thread!
Love on ya!
Yeah, it's been a good discussion, good for you for sticking with it! As you say, food for thought.
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Squid Tempest
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 14:02
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Thanks Mr Elf, you put it better than I did!
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kiddrahcir
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 16:14
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sorry i know you've finished this discussion but... does mr suarve consider birdsong music. just a thought.
can you right it down, does it follow all his rules? or are all those bloomin left field blackbirds and thrushes decieving us?
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keith a
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 16:20
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suave harv wrote:
Just like when you take bread, butter and ham away from a ham sandwich, you don't have a ham sandwich anymore.
You can sit there staring at your empty plate saying "this is my left field experimental version of a ham sandwich" if you want. But don't expect me to agree you've got a sarnie there!
Ha!
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keith a
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 16:23
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Excellent post Mrs!
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Kid Calamity
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Re: Black Sheep @ the Bristol Festival
Sep 23, 2009, 16:29
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Mrs Ahab wrote: ...you know what i really think "You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time." or you can just not give a fuck and please yourself and see who wants to join your trip.
Yeah! Fair doos!
Were the band pleased with the performance?
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