zphage
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Edited Dec 06, 2007, 19:51
King Crimson/Roxy Music
Dec 06, 2007, 14:42
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Two great bands that happened during the Prog Era, yet seemed apart from it. Were they artful hard rockers? Or hard rocking art rockers?
Manzanera and Fripp each threw down some molten slabs, yet they were not defined by it.
Both very British bands with decent success in U.S. and Europe.
Art school backgrounds?
Do art schools still exist in UK?
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Jim Tones
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Strange Fact!
Dec 06, 2007, 23:12
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Bryan Ferry once auditioned for King Crimson! =8-o
(Pete Sinfield also produced the first Roxy album)
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geoffrey_prime
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Re: Strange Fact!
Dec 07, 2007, 03:19
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The Bogus 21st Century Schizoid Man!
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IanB
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Edited Dec 07, 2007, 10:23
Re: King Crimson/Roxy Music
Dec 07, 2007, 10:19
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It's about two branches of Psych I reckon.
Generally speaking the rump of Engish prog came out of Psych and leant on folk, church and classical traditions for additional inspiration. Hence the provincial posh-boy / public school vibe. It's a cliche but with some truth in it. Lots of choir practice and enforced piano lessons. Very Un-American music and not an iota of Blues.
I think KC and VdGG were also Psych based but coming from more of a jazz, English blues boom and r&b place shared by the Pete Browns of this world. Although they both did some impenetrable stuff they were less about flash and more about blowing hard with controlled menace. You can hear why Graham Bond was invovled in VdGG and why saxes fit so naturally into the KC sound. They could also groove which Yes and Genesis couldn't in a million years. Nothing more alarming than the sound of Jon Anderson and Steve Howe trying to rock-out.
Roxy were just out on their own. No one else was so concerned with 20th century retro (Hollywood Deco etc), with American style, camp and high fashion while keeping the whole thing really hetero despite the dressing up. Art School yes, but with a twist provided by drapers and milliners. There's no template for what they did and had the huge advantage of being really iffy players. Limited skills focus the mind!
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handofdave
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Re: King Crimson/Roxy Music
Dec 07, 2007, 15:13
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IanB wrote: There's no template for what they did and had the huge advantage of being really iffy players. Limited skills focus the mind!
Indeed! Some of the best stuff is unschooled impulses as they are channeled through those limited skills.. operating at the edge of capability and not imprinted with a particular 'signature sound' born of habit.
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postyesterdayman
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Re: Stranger Fact!
Dec 07, 2007, 15:20
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Jerry Seinfeld produced the last King Crimson record!
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GeeZa
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Re: King Crimson/Roxy Music
Dec 07, 2007, 16:30
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IanB wrote: It's about two branches of Psych I reckon.
I'd go along with that, especially with KC, obviously a big influence on Acid Mothers and even Wata (from Boris) covered Islands on her last release. I think Crimson were a classic mash-up really. Some noodly jazz, some psyche, some folk, some prog, some rock, something else. Quite eccentric which may well explain peoples' fairly ambivalent attitude towards them and I think Fripp was more a sonic artisan than any kind of genre stalwart. They were often bordering on noise merchants which is kinda why I love them so. Oddly in the US they have a reputation of being something of a proto-metal band (and are much revered). Listening to The Great Deceiver (which has been re-issued and is essential) you can kinda see it at times. Great band, far more pushing of the the envelope and subversive than the posh-kid musings of Waters-era Floyd, Yes or Genesis.
I confess to having *no idea* what was going on with Roxy. Brilliant though they were.
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machineryelf
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Re: King Crimson/Roxy Music
Dec 08, 2007, 14:55
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Spot, especially about Roxy, they still sound brilliant, probably sounding both futuristic and retro
just one point
''They could also groove which Yes and Genesis couldn't in a million years. Nothing more alarming than the sound of Jon Anderson and Steve Howe trying to rock-out.''
Yessongs -once they got rid of Bruford, certainly a great drummer but seemingly incapable of keeping a simple 4 to the floor beat without filling the spaces with jazzy bippity boppity stuff, Yes actually had a groove, a pretty stiff middle class whiteboy groove but a groove non the less.
checkout out the latter parts of Yessongs or Going For The One
Genesis never grooved, Phil Collins does a nice motown pastiche though [ha ha only joking]
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IanB
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Edited Dec 08, 2007, 18:37
Re: King Crimson/Roxy Music
Dec 08, 2007, 18:32
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machineryelf wrote: Yessongs -once they got rid of Bruford, certainly a great drummer but seemingly incapable of keeping a simple 4 to the floor beat without filling the spaces with jazzy bippity boppity stuff, Yes actually had a groove, a pretty stiff middle class whiteboy groove but a groove non the less. checkout out the latter parts of Yessongs or Going For The One
You are totally right. The last side of Yessongs (Starship Trooper and Yours Is No Disgrace) does rock pretty hard. Though those are at heart tunes built by and for Tony Kaye's organ (rather than Wakeman's moogs) and you can hear the Peter Banks influence in the riffage.
I was thinking more of say the Going For The One album where they tried to update their sound but only really hit the mark on the brilliant Awaken which is classic neo-classical prog and possibly the finest piece of music of its kind. But it doesn't rock. Their version of I'm Down which they were playing on the 76 tour is just hilarious. James Last Orchestra covering Easy Livin had more about it!
You're right about Roxy too. Only Be Bop Deluxe did the futurist retro thing with anything like the same degree of invention.
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zphage
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Re: King Crimson/Roxy Music
Dec 08, 2007, 18:43
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Greg Lake era of Crimson has some great stories about changing up tempos on Fripp to Bluesy/jazzy swing because Fripp couldn't swing.
Fripp has a very nice appreciation written in a Robin Trower reissue about how he took lessons from Robin in the early 70's to get that bluesy jazzy swing.
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