zphage
|
Edited Nov 30, 2007, 15:35
the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 15:19
|
Interesting article on how cds are remastered loud/bright for cd instead of how the original LP might have been done:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article2877291.ece
Steve Hoffman does a lot of the vinyl and DVD-A mastering for Warner Brothers' http://becausesoundmatters.com/
classic, fan vs. audiophile battle
Hoffman also runs avery informative/fierce forum:
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/index.php
|
Eduardo
|
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 15:54
|
|
What's the point in making CDs louder all the time? There's one or two I've heard recently with audible clipping on them! I've got a volume knob that makes things louder, I don't have anything that can undo compression.
|
Kid Calamity
|
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 16:06
|
|
Ah, but apparently guitar parts appear in the new remastered 'Song Remains (almost) The Same' soundtrack, that weren't audible on previous versions. Hmmm...
|
Big Ed
|
Edited Nov 30, 2007, 16:21
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 16:21
|
This might be of interest in connection with the loudness issue.
http://www.turnmeup.org/
|
zphage
|
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 16:32
|
|
Thanks, Big Ed. Very interesting.
|
Dog 3000
|
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 17:58
|
Lots of great links here. As usual, there is a technology shift behind the current trend in popular music.
I think all the stuff about louder songs playing better in pubs misses the real point -- they're mixing everything for download-to-ipod for presumably young urban listeners who use their ipods to drown out the sounds of the streets and subways etc.
"Nobody" listens to music on a "stereo" anymore!
I thought this article was interesting: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article1878724.ece
. . . for the notion that over-compressed "everything louder than everything else" music is acutally "fatiguing" to listen to.
I certainly think so -- this explains why so much of the modern major label popular music manages to be both "in your face obnoxious" and "bland and flat-sounding" at the same time.
The one "good" example of this trend I can think of is Iggy's 1996 remaster of "Raw Power" -- it's radically different than the original mix in every way, but I thought he actually did a good job of transfering the "idea" of how the original was mixed into digital (redline digital sounds totally different from redline analog.) Of course, this disc sounds like total crap through the wrong CD player / set of speakers!! Sometimes it clips like crazy and sounds awful . . . but even that's kind of cool in a way: a challenge to your stereo!
(If you want a really extreme example of a band that used a VAST dynamic range compared to today, try loading an early King Crimson epic into a sound editor and check out the waveform! Can't wait to see how the "flatline mix" of THAT will sound!!)
|
zphage
|
Edited Nov 30, 2007, 18:42
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 18:35
|
I find that I go back to Gene Vincent, Elvis, Little Richard, Fats, etc because I find the mixes have space, breathing room. There is musicality instead of a sonic assault.
The sonic assault of your average modern rock cd (pop punk, emo, metal) gets wearying. Everything is mixed fully into each channel, as though we have two complete mono mixes for your stereo assault.
I have always felt a lot of the newer bands sonic overload had to do with hiding lack of strong song structures/vocals/performance.
Panning and stereo separation are things of the past.
|
Dog 3000
|
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 19:31
|
If you dig around through those wikipedia links there is an article that notes that the average loudness of CD's has gone from an "average RMS" of -18dB in the late 1980's to -9dB today (with the "Raw Power" CD clocking in at -4dB, still the loudest thing ever!)
But ideas like "harmonic progression" (as opposed to "riffs" and "beats") and "musicianship" (as opposed to click-tracking and pitch-cleaning all the "individual style" out of a performance) went out decades ago, so it's not like there's much "detail" to go missing by loudness-compressing the latest releases by My Sunday Bath or Clattrd Fyst (just making up some typical nu-metal/emo band names there!)
I'd be curious to see some sort of analysis of how many chords a hit song had in 1965 compared to today . . . or how many tempo / time changes (remember when songs used to speed up and slow down???)
|
zphage
|
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 19:57
|
Interesting stuff.
I remember when Guitar Wolf's "Jet Generation" came out as the loudest mastered cd. We cranked it at the store when it came out. It got pointless.
Hendrix looms here because more than anyone he understood sonics and used them masterfully in his guitar playing, songwriting and recording. He was at the helm of all that was available at the time and pushed it beautifully.
|
mercian
|
Re: the Mastering Loudness Wars: Led Zeppelin
Nov 30, 2007, 20:25
|
|
A lot of old Jamaican reggae was buggered up when put onto CD. I remember looking forward to getting rid of those old scratchy dub plates and getting it all on those new fangled CD`s when they first came out. very disappointing..
|
