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1001realapes
1001realapes
1948 posts

Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 03, 2007, 20:57
Ive read they may last 2-5 years or
5-10 or such, i have many from
6 years ago or so that seem fine,
have been thiking about picking up
some Mitsui gold archival's for my
really fave discs.

thoughts ?
achuma
achuma
499 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 06:32
Yeah, this bothers me sometimes, as I'm sure it does all of us who have awesome music in their collections that's only on a cd-r...
As far as my own music that I've made, I keep it all backed up on computer as well as 'naster copy' cd-r's.
As far as burns of LP's and other stuff, I'm yet to have one die on me. Fortunately I don't live in a humid climate where those 'cd-eating bacteria' can take hold. I also take excellent care of my discs and don't leave them in hot cars if I can help it. I started using Kodak gold discs but then moved on to TDK gold, which I've been using for about 7 years now with no problems. [Didn't have probs with the Kodak ones either - I just found the TDK ones were a bit easier to get and were cheaper, for the same level of quality]
I suspect most people who have problems with cd-r's dying can actually blame one or more of the following -
*using poor-quality discs
*burning them at too high a speed
*leaving discs in a hot car or other hot place
*use of stick-on labels
*poor storage of discs at home [so many idiots leave discs lying around out of cases]
handofdave
handofdave
3515 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 10:16
Another thing I've found about CDRs is that they tend to not like being filled to capacity... the last tracks on a full disk tend to be the first ones to fail to play.

My car CD player is more more touchy about 'em than my other decks. I keep master copies on the computer and burn new disks when the old ones give up the ghost.

Gold disks are better, but I wonder still about the long term. I don't think this tech is as 'archival' as the manufacturers would like us to think.

I've been seriously considering backing ALL my music up on a hard drive and selling off all the old vinyl and cassette tapes and CDs. Of course, hard drives fail too....
anthonyqkiernan
anthonyqkiernan
7092 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 10:23
handofdave wrote:
I've been seriously considering backing ALL my music up on a hard drive and selling off all the old vinyl and cassette tapes and CDs. Of course, hard drives fail too....

Yeah, but if you've only got the one copy then it's technically not backed-up. This is also some thing that needs to be done regularly.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 10:24
We've got some from about 10 years ago, when about three people per town used the things (not us though!). They still play, but back then they probably cost about £4 each whereas now you get a bundle of 100 for £10.
You get 'gold' ones? What ones that are physically 'gold' in colour? Are they meant to be better? Proper bought album cds aren't 'gold'. I'm being a total cretin here I'm sure...
x
anthonyqkiernan
anthonyqkiernan
7092 posts

Edited Jun 05, 2007, 10:32
Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 10:29
Album discs are CDs not CD-Rs (largely). Simple as that. Still the gold (see original limited edition Jehovakill) is better quality.

Wikipedia wrote:
There are three basic formulations of dye used in CD-Rs:

1. Cyanine dye CD-Rs were the earliest ones developed, and their formulation is patented by Taiyo Yuden. CD-Rs based on this dye are mostly green in color. The earlier models were very chemically unstable and this made cyanine based discs unsuitable for archival use; they could fade and become unreadable in a few years. Many manufacturers like Taiyo Yuden use proprietary chemical additives to make more stable cyanine discs ("metal stabilized Cyanine", "Super Cyanine"). Older cyanine dye based CD-Rs, as well as all the hybrid dyes based on cyanine, were very sensitive to UV-rays and could have became unreadable after only a few days if they were exposed to direct sunlight and although the additives used have made cyanine more stable, still it is the most sensitive of the dyes in UV rays (shows signs of degradation within a week of direct sunlight exposure). A common mistake users make is to leave the CD-Rs with the "clear" (recording) surface upwards, in order to protect it from scratches, as this lets the sun hit on the recording surface directly.

2. Phthalocyanine dye CD-Rs are usually silver, gold or light green. The patents on phthalocyanine CD-Rs are held by Mitsui and Ciba Specialty Chemicals. Phthalocyanine is a natively stable dye (has no need for stabilizers) and CD-Rs based on this are often given a rated lifetime of hundreds of years. Unlike cyanine, phthalocyanine is more resistant to UV rays and CD-Rs based on this dye show signs of degradation only after two weeks of direct sunlight exposure.

3. Azo dye CD-Rs are dark blue in color, and their formulation is patented by Mitsubishi Chemicals. Azo dye is also chemically stable, and Azo CD-Rs are typically rated with a lifetime of decades. Azo is the most resistant dye against UV rays and begins to degrade only after the third or fourth week of direct sunlight exposure. More modern implementations of this kind of dye include Super Azo which is not as deep blue as the earlier Metal Azo. This change of composition was necessary in order to achieve faster writing speeds.

There are many hybrid variations of the dye formulations, such as Formazan by Kodak (a hybrid of cyanine and phthalocyanine).

Although the CD-R was initially developed in Japan, most of the production of CD-Rs had moved to Taiwan by 1998, and also to Mainland China, Hong Kong, and Malaysia. Taiwanese manufacturers supplied more than 70% of the worldwide production volume of 10.5 billion CD-Rs in 2003.

Unfortunately, many manufacturers have added additional coloring to disguise their unstable cyanine CD-Rs in the past, so the formulation of a disc cannot be determined based purely on its color. Similarly, a gold reflective layer does not guarantee use of phthalocyanine dye. The quality of the disc is also not only dependent on the dye used, it is also influenced by sealing, the top layer, the reflective layer, and the polycarbonate. Simply choosing a disc based on its dye type may be problematic.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 10:36
Number 2 looks the best. Not pretending to be 'gold' quality.
This should be a major trading standards issue!
What eejit would leave their cds lying out exposed to the sun/dust/dirt etc for any time anyway?
I always regret as a teen not taking care of my rekkids (some have indelible make up smudges on them to this day), but my cds of all kinds are well 'housed'.
x
handofdave
handofdave
3515 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 11:12
anthonyqkiernan wrote:
handofdave wrote:
I've been seriously considering backing ALL my music up on a hard drive and selling off all the old vinyl and cassette tapes and CDs. Of course, hard drives fail too....

Yeah, but if you've only got the one copy then it's technically not backed-up. This is also some thing that needs to be done regularly.


I s'pose what I meant was having TWO hard drives, a backup and a backup for the backup. Or something.
Tripecac
Tripecac
96 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 14:57
With an external hard drive enclosure, it's easy (and cheap) to backup all your music and data to a hard drive, which you can then put in a safe deposit box in the bank. I have 2 such hard drives, which "rotate" between home and bank. In addition, I backup audio to CD and data to DVD and store copies of those in the bank as well.

Redundancy and automation are the key. Every data file I have is backed up in at least 8 locations (2 offsite). Every song I create is backed up in those 8 locations, plus 7 audio CDs (2 of which are mailed to family), for a total of 15 lossless copies [plus mp3 versions backed up to 8 locations and uploaded to 1 or 2 remote servers]. I wrote scripts to perform the backing up for me, so that I don't have to think about it. I just click an icon when I am ready to back up.

Of course, this doesn't really address the original question: lifespan of cdrs. I guess my response is: "if you have lots of backups on lots of media types in lots of locations, you don't need to worry so much about the lifespan of any one copy".
Zenomatic
Zenomatic
173 posts

Re: Lifespan of cdrs
Jun 05, 2007, 17:15
http://www.amazon.com/LaCie-Extreme-External-Interface-300801U/dp/B000AZFYQ0
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