Cock-a-Doodle
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Re: Krautrock: Love it or Hate it!
Sep 02, 2004, 16:44
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Stockhausen - Telemusik - yes!!!!!!!!!
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Lugia
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Re: Krautrock: Love it or Hate it!
Sep 02, 2004, 16:53
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Listen to "Telemusik" back to back with Holger's "Canaxis", I suggest...there's definitely a relationship between these two works.
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Dog 3000
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tee hee
Sep 02, 2004, 16:55
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See, my problem with the latter Can albums is exactly that "some of it really stinks of jazz-fusion." (Plus Michael Karoli's singing!) If the drummer wasn't steeped in his own uniquely weird translation of "James Brown licks" some of it would sound like generic 70's-wank!
Naw, I love them too. Can were certainly better musicians than Faust, but still not as "far out" or clever.
But I think I often prefer the less-good musicians with the weirder ideas to the good musicians with "class" ideas. Personal tastes, as you said. ;-)
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Dog 3000
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What is Krautrock?
Sep 02, 2004, 17:04
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Certainly an English term, more than a little prejorative perhaps.
But I think of the term as referencing a SCENE -- "West Germany in the late 60's to mid-70's" -- and not a "style" or "sound."
What those groups have in common is a time and a place, and therefore a somewhat shared view of "the world" that was unique to that time & place. Obviously the "psych 60s" in the US & UK were a big influence, as was the whole "Eastern Trip" that was a fad at the time. Also I'm sure the generation gap was much more extreme, as we're talking about young hippies vs. parents who survived the Nazis & WW2.
And I think the influence of Karlheinz Stockhausen on the scene is also enormous -- seems to me a few luminaries even studied directly under him as students. Somehow Stockhausen seems like he could have only come along after something as earth-shattering as "WW2" . . .
And of course it's a bit circular -- the Beatles & Frtank Zappa and other non-German rockers were hip to what Stockhausen was doing. McCartney said he was an influence on Sgt. Pepper even (think he's on the cover collage too.)
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Stevo
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Re: Krautrock: Love it or Hate it!
Sep 02, 2004, 17:15
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Holger was a Stockhausen student.
I think there's another article up at
www.furious.com/perfect
about that.
Stevo
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Lugia
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Re: Krautrock: Love it or Hate it!
Sep 02, 2004, 17:30
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Yup, quite aware of that. It was Holger that suggested that I go and study with Karlheinz myself, which I did in 2001 and 2002. Really served to 'refocus' a lot of my ideas about composition, as has some critique of my work Holger gave (and which I remains quite thankful for) back circa 2000.
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Lugia
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Re: What is Krautrock?
Sep 02, 2004, 17:35
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One thing to remember, also, is that Stockhausen didn't always stay in Germany. In 1967/68, he was teaching in the USA, with one notable residency being at U Cal Davis right around that critical 'summer of love' period. It was during that that members of the Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, et al...key players in the whole Bay Area scene...attended lectures by Stockhausen there that wound up massively influencing their music and that scene in general.
Stockhausen was sufficiently influenced by the scene as well. Coming out of those experiences, he composed "Stimmung" and his first 'intuitive music' cycle, "Aus den Sieben Tagen", the latter being heavily influenced by free-music and improvisational methods as well as meditative techniques.
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Dog 3000
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K-H S
Sep 02, 2004, 17:41
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Didn't Florian Schneider also study under Stockhausen for a time?
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Lugia
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K-H S
Sep 02, 2004, 17:49
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Don't think so...he and Ralf were students at the Remscheid Academy, if I remember right, and I don't think Stocki ever taught there. However, it's hard to definitively say yes or no, since that whole Köln scene is far more of a clusterfuck (no pun intended!) than one might ever suspect. I DO know that in one old interview, he and Ralf admitted that they started screwing around with the ideas that eventually emerged as Organization after attending a Stockhausen concert on a big load of acid.
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MonkeyBoy
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Re: Krautrock: Love it or Hate it!
Sep 02, 2004, 18:39
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I agree with LL in that after getting stuff from the KRS top 50 you have to tread a bit more carefully. There are many gems to discover after Can, Neu, Faust, Ash Ra Tempel, Cluster, Tangerine Dream, early Guru Guru and some Amon Duul. But sometimes you are going unearth something best left buried (particularly be careful with the more heavy rock stuff). The first Gila & Agitation Free are classics as is Brain Ticket, Organisation and Emtidi's Saat. Others are quite good like Out Of Focus, Achim Reichel, Dzyan. I also find Popul Vuh a bit hit and miss.
The Kraut records I am still after are German Oak, Code III and Sand (I would also like to hear The Necromonicon album). After that I am not sure as I have bought some 2nd and 3rd division Kraut which was disapointing and a depressing waste of money -like Message, Janus (not strictly Kraut), Birth Control, Nosferatu. Others mediocre like Embryo, also Tarot is good as background music but don't expect it to overwhelm you.
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