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Locodogz
Locodogz
232 posts

Manchester
May 23, 2017, 10:54
Mrs LD took our girls to see Take That there on Saturday....there but for the grace etc

Words fail me - there are some sick fuckers out there

Condolences to all affected

Take care
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4645 posts

Re: Manchester
May 23, 2017, 11:14
Locodogz wrote:
Mrs LD took our girls to see Take That there on Saturday....there but for the grace etc

Words fail me - there are some sick fuckers out there

Condolences to all affected

Take care


Ditto. How the hell do we stop it?
Gladwin
Gladwin
343 posts

Re: Manchester
May 23, 2017, 11:38
Sanctuary wrote:
How the hell do we stop it?

We could stop bombing the Middle East. That might be a start.
moss
moss
2813 posts

Edited May 23, 2017, 14:17
Re: Manchester
May 23, 2017, 11:54
Locodogz wrote:
Mrs LD took our girls to see Take That there on Saturday....there but for the grace etc

Words fail me - there are some sick fuckers out there

Condolences to all affected

Take care


As one who also last night gave thanks that my grandchildren were not at this concert, my heart goes out today to all those parents and grandparents who are still waiting for news of loved ones.
The people of Manchester behaved magnificently, we should be grateful in all these party arguments in that it is the people who in the end cope with the terrible tragedy that took place not the politicians.
dhajjieboy
913 posts

Re: Manchester
May 23, 2017, 13:30
Gladwin wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
How the hell do we stop it?

We could stop bombing the Middle East. That might be a start.



No....no it won't....
The Taliban will still continue to bomb schoolyards in Pakistan for girls as they have for many years now to the tune of thousands of deaths of there 'own' people...
There will still be homosexual men in Arabic countries getting thrown off the top of the tallest buildings as cheering neighborhoods watch...
To say nothing of global cultural monument obliterations...{who knows...maybe Stonehenge next?}
'THEY' will still continue to practice female genital mutilation on 'their' 7 year old daughters...even in America....
'They' will still honor and obey Sharia law over and above the laws of the lands that 'They' immigrate to...up to and including 'Honor' killings of defenseless wives and daughters..
Nothing to do with the "We"st.
I grieve for the people of Manchester.
I grieve for the fate of mankind.
phallus dei
390 posts

Re: Manchester
May 23, 2017, 15:09
dhajjieboy wrote:
Gladwin wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
How the hell do we stop it?

We could stop bombing the Middle East. That might be a start.



No....no it won't....
The Taliban will still continue to bomb schoolyards in Pakistan for girls as they have for many years now to the tune of thousands of deaths of there 'own' people...
There will still be homosexual men in Arabic countries getting thrown off the top of the tallest buildings as cheering neighborhoods watch...
To say nothing of global cultural monument obliterations...{who knows...maybe Stonehenge next?}
'THEY' will still continue to practice female genital mutilation on 'their' 7 year old daughters...even in America....
'They' will still honor and obey Sharia law over and above the laws of the lands that 'They' immigrate to...up to and including 'Honor' killings of defenseless wives and daughters..
Nothing to do with the "We"st.
I grieve for the people of Manchester.
I grieve for the fate of mankind.



It's important to remember that the vile practices dhajjieboy describes are, for the most part, a fairly recent phenomenon. "Radical Islamic terrorism" was not a significant issue until the 1990s. If you look at pictures of the ME from the 50s-70s, and start learning about the era, you will find that there had once been a vibrant secular movement advocating Pan-Arabism. There is nothing inherently barbaric about the people in the region. The problem is secular ideologies have become drowned out by religious fundamentalism.

To end (or significantly reduce) Islamic terrorism, the West needs to drastically change its policies in the ME, and begin supporting secular regimes and movements as a counterbalance to the spread of Wahhabi Islam. Unfortunately, we (the West) have already destroyed most of the secular regimes in the region, so the chances for ending terrorism are substantially less than they were, say, ten years ago.

Secular movements in the ME first began to decline in the late 1970s, when America, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia decided to support the fundamentalist Mujahideen against the Communist government in Afghanistan. In 1998, a French newspaper interviewed Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor, about this fateful decision:

Q: ...do you regret having supported Islamic fundamentalism, which has given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B : What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q : “Some agitated Moslems”? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today...

B: Nonsense!

Note that the interview took place in 1998.

http://dgibbs.faculty.arizona.edu/brzezinski_interview
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
5850 posts

Re: Manchester
May 24, 2017, 20:03
Gladwin wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
How the hell do we stop it?

We could stop bombing the Middle East. That might be a start.



Yes, it would.

"Corbyn opposed the ill-fated regime changes in Iraq and Libya. He questioned the justifications when it was unpopular to do so. He was right. He warned of the repercussions. He was right. There is no longer any debate that both of these helped provide the space, motivation and chaos for extremist groups to thrive. Isis of course would not even exist if not for the Iraq War, and Al Qaeda would have less recruits. With regard to Libya, a 2016 report by the UK House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee stated that the intervention was based on “erroneous assumptions”, not on accurate intelligence."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-anti-intervention-middle-east-manchester-attack-libya-foreign-policy-a7752706.html
sanshee
sanshee
1109 posts

Re: Manchester
May 24, 2017, 22:56
I don't think the bomber here cared much for the welfare of anyone in 'The Middle East' tbh.
As an Isis barbarian, certainly not the women.
Which by natural extension also 'the blokes'.
Infact, seems his ideal was the 'Middle East' wound itself back a few thousand years.
Howburn Digger
Howburn Digger
749 posts

Re: Manchester
May 24, 2017, 23:09
Poor Manchester.

I find it a not strange and remarkably unsurprising fact that UK and US Nat Security Forces both knew of UK born Salman Abedi and his movements. Both UK and French National Security forces knew he'd been in Syria training with the UK and US backed Dogs of War Daesh and ISIS this year. They are our guys after all...

Salman Abedi's father Ramadan Abedi was a refugee from Gadaffi's Libya in the late 1980's. However after the joint UK and US-backed toppling of Gadaffi (using the mercenary Dogs of War Daesh/ ISIS) in 2011, Ramadan Abedi left Britain and suddenly became manager of the Central Security Force in Tripoli (the same Dogs of War under any other name). You couldn't make this stuff up... Salman Abedi just came back from a visit there a few days ago...

The diplomacy of the first half of the 20th Century which really marked the UK's entry into Arab States and allowed Western Oil Interests to begin work ended a bit more than a decade ago. Diplomacy, trade and business has been replaced by Western and Saudi-backed proxy armies of Wahhabist thugs who instigate wars, terrorise civilian populations and destabilise governments to enable ram-raids on resources and legitimise "Western Intervention" (aerial bombardment with depeleted Uranium) to "protect civilians" and enable "regime change". We've all seen what that looks like.

To suggest that UK and US-backed destabilisation of the Middle East has spawned a monster in the shape of Salman Abedi would be of course a huge understatement. Our leaders who knew better stoked the fires of extremism across the Middle East, created blood-soaked chaos where none was needed and left our front door wide open. Poor Manchester.

We've been here before and we'll be here again. Trump has eased the way for the US Military Industrial Complex in the massive arms deal with the Wahhabist Saudis. Our friends across the pond should look out for angry looking Yemenis wearing vests soon. "This deal has President Trump throwing gasoline on someone else's little house fire and locking the door on his way out."

Cui bono.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
5850 posts

Re: Manchester
May 24, 2017, 23:13
Cui bono indeed. The timing is clearly significant and rather troubling.
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