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Mantid
75 posts

USSA
May 10, 2017, 07:27
Trump's family admits to being neck-deep in Russian finance, Trump's cabinet are all under scrutiny for collusion (or more likely, treason), and now clumsy measures are taken to derail investigation while scrambling to transfer assets offshore. Meanwhile, a meeting is scheduled for tomorrow with Trump's Kremlin handler.

That old curse, "may you live in interesting times", seems to be taking root!
dhajjieboy
913 posts

Re: USSA
May 10, 2017, 10:06
i didn't vote for that shit-bird...i know at least 1 member who infests this forum who did though.....
What was it ole' Bill Hicks said about "sucking satans cock?"
More like tragic times.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
5878 posts

Re: USSA
May 10, 2017, 13:33
I think Barron Trump will make an excellent Director of the FBI.
phallus dei
394 posts

Re: USSA
May 10, 2017, 14:19
Mantid wrote:
Trump's family admits to being neck-deep in Russian finance, Trump's cabinet are all under scrutiny for collusion (or more likely, treason), and now clumsy measures are taken to derail investigation while scrambling to transfer assets offshore. Meanwhile, a meeting is scheduled for tomorrow with Trump's Kremlin handler.

That old curse, "may you live in interesting times", seems to be taking root!


Interesting, just on May 4 Democratic Senator Dianna Feinstein, who is partly in charge of investigating alleged Trump - Russia ties, told Wolf Blitzer of CNN that the CIA had yet to provide any evidence of such collusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BS5amEq7Fc

Has some explosive new evidence, definitively showing such ties, after more than 6 months of persistent rumors, suddenly emerged since then?

In any case, it seems to me that any rational personal would welcome the possibility for Russian-US détente. Isn't a lessening of tensions between the world's two dominant nuclear powers a good thing?

Also, the USSR dissolved in 1991.
laresident
laresident
857 posts

Re: USSA
May 11, 2017, 16:56
I think it's early days.
Jackie Speier comments no proof yet but drawing lines between dots.

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/10/527720092/democrat-rep-jackie-speier-compares-comeys-firing-to-nixon
phallus dei
394 posts

Edited May 11, 2017, 18:19
Re: USSA
May 11, 2017, 18:14
I don't know, to me, the whole "Russian influence" angle is much ado about nothing. As the article states (and you point out), there's "no proof yet but we're connecting the dots." So far, what has come out is that Russia paid various members of the Trump team speaking fees, held discussions, etc, to gain "influence." So what? That's what foreign governments do to try to sway politicians in the American system. Besides giving money to Trump, Russia also gave money to various Democrats -
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/02/18/no-one-mentions-that-the-russian-trail-leads-to-democratic-lobbyists/#3faa56ea3991

And members of the Trump team, in addition to taking money from Russia, took money from other countries, such as Turkey -
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/03/gas-from-israel-and-the-flynn-wiretapping-behind-the-deep-state-infighting-over-the-trump-election.html

It's the way the system works. (My disgust over the such a system is partly why I found Trump's slogan to "drain the swamp" so appealing)

There seems to be a popular belief, or, more precisely, the MSM is pushing a narrative that it hopes will then become a popular belief - that it is somehow bad to take money from Russia in any case. But why, exactly? Is Russia worse than Saudi Arabia?
https://theintercept.com/2016/08/25/why-did-the-saudi-regime-and-other-gulf-tyrannies-donate-millions-to-the-clinton-foundation/

Considering that foreign governments "donate" to American politicians all the time (and of course, America does the same), I don't see what is particularly novel about the extent of Trump-Russian ties. Instead, the Russia probe just seems like a typical with hunt conducted by an opposition party. (Similar to when the Republicans and Ken Starr went after Bill Clinton in the 90s)

And like I said previously, I would think that greater American-Russian ties would be something that most people want, considering the possible consequences otherwise. Indeed, better ties with Russia was the main reason why I voted for Trump.
laresident
laresident
857 posts

Re: USSA
May 12, 2017, 14:16
I agree that better relations with Russia would be a good thing. I'm not sure if Trump is the person to do it. I'm however more disturbed by the threat of Russia, Trump or anyone poses to the democratic system of elections and the influence of money in politics.
phallus dei
394 posts

Edited May 13, 2017, 00:31
Re: USSA
May 13, 2017, 00:31
laresident wrote:
I agree that better relations with Russia would be a good thing. I'm not sure if Trump is the person to do it. I'm however more disturbed by the threat of Russia, Trump or anyone poses to the democratic system of elections and the influence of money in politics.


Thanks for being civil in your disagreement.

My own view is that America had already reached such a sorry state of corruption that it's difficult to see how Trump will make things worse. There was a widely-cited report by Princeton political scientists in 2014 that America could no longer be considered a democracy, but was better understood as an oligarchy

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Originally, I had placed some hope in Trump's "drain the swamp" rhetoric, though that hope now seems to be naïve. (I have a tendency of getting fooled by politicians - before Trump, I voted for Obama twice.)

So all the corruption and nepotism charges to me appear as "par for the course."

Where I think genuine progress may still be made would be in reorientating American foreign policy. I had briefly given up on that, too, after Trump launched his missile attack on Syria. But the recent Trump-Lavrov meeting gives me some hope that better ties can be formed. We'll see how things go.
laresident
laresident
857 posts

Re: USSA
May 13, 2017, 15:09
Unfortunately, by the insights of the Election thread, the erosion of democracy and the rise of Putinism seems to have washed up on the Brit shores also.
phallus dei
394 posts

Re: USSA
May 13, 2017, 15:40
laresident wrote:
Unfortunately, by the insights of the Election thread, the erosion of democracy and the rise of Putinism seems to have washed up on the Brit shores also.


The erosion of Western-style democracy can largely be attributed to the rise of neoliberalism / neo-conservatism, which began in the late 70s, and experienced two drastic upkicks with the collapse of the SU in '91 and then 9/11 a decade later. Now that the "war on terror" has lost some of its hegemonic elan, "Putinism" has become the dominant way for the elite and their sycophantic media to divert peoples' anger away from their true enemy. "Putin" fulfills a role in the West analogous to Emmanuel Goldstein in 1984.

On another note, I do find concern with Russian "meddling" in America's elections somewhat hypocritical, given all the foreign elections that America has interfered with. Here's an example from the recent edition of the Observer - Haitians protesting Hilary's upcoming speech at a college, in part because she pressured Haitians to select America's pick for their country's leader, "or else."
http://observer.com/2017/05/haitians-protest-hillary-clinton-commencement-speech-medgar-evers-college/

Objectively speaking, neoliberalism is a much bigger blight upon the world than "Putinism." I would therefore prefer to see a greater role for Russia on the world stage, so as to counterbalance the neoliberal threat.
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