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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Feb 21, 2017, 20:42
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thesweetcheat wrote: Yep, and although it saddens me I would not blame Scotland one bit for deciding they've had enough of Westminster. As for the potential nightmare that the renewal of a hard border would bring to Northern Ireland, it hardly bears thinking about. I'm not so sure (although you'll know better) how the loudly calls for a Wales IndyRef are being made, I've not heard much - even from Plaid really. But Wales is potentially in a mess if the Tories won't match the existing EU funding, as I've said to dhajjieboy here: http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=75828&message=948989 I totally agree with that. Yeah Plaid are being silent about it at the moment, I think they're more focusing on trying to keep things (people) together in Wales after we leave the EU, the movements are run by groups like Yes Cymru and a number of other groups, but as far as anything official there's very little apart from the odd comment here and there. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-wales-vote-leave-eu-referendum-result-brussels-funding-economy-a7136196.html I really do hope Scotland get another vote, the reasons they were convinced to stay have been totally betrayed and they deserve their say now. The situation in NI isn't one I'm even wanting to think about, it's going to be a mess. On a personal level I would like to see the country united as one and within the EU if they so wish, same as Scotland. I was reading something a while ago about the idea of Wales, Scotland and NI joining together to kick England out of the union. It was a satirical piece (I think) but it's something I've been hearing a fair bit more from from a number of people now
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Feb 21, 2017, 20:55
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Captain Starlet wrote: I was reading something a while ago about the idea of Wales, Scotland and NI joining together to kick England out of the union. It was a satirical piece (I think) but it's something I've been hearing a fair bit more from from a number of people now Can't say I'd blame anyone. I'm disgusted with the English, despite being one. England has become horribly insular, xenophobic, selfish and self-centred, evidenced by the way the last GE went as much as anything. If that ejection of England ever came to pass, I'd most likely move to the country formed from the other nations.
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Feb 21, 2017, 21:00
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I doubt you'd be the only one, sadly some parts of Wales are like that too. I think with there being so much uncertainty it's not helping people see what the situation is so people can't deal with it, so to speak. With leaving they'll soon see reality bite and (I'm hoping) it will bring an end to the levels of idiocy about at the moment
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Feb 22, 2017, 07:23
Feb 22, 2017, 07:17
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thesweetcheat wrote: Can't say I'd blame anyone. I'm disgusted with the English, despite being one. England has become horribly insular, xenophobic, selfish and self-centred, evidenced by the way the last GE went as much as anything. Yep. A lot of it. Actually, it's a massive historic change. Millions and millions of people are utterly pissed off with their fellow countrymen in a way that won't get mended and ironically just want to leave. Dear Scotland, If you leave can I please buy citizenship?
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Feb 22, 2017, 10:08
Feb 22, 2017, 09:59
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nigelswift wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: Can't say I'd blame anyone. I'm disgusted with the English, despite being one. England has become horribly insular, xenophobic, selfish and self-centred, evidenced by the way the last GE went as much as anything. Yep. A lot of it. Actually, it's a massive historic change. Millions and millions of people are utterly pissed off with their fellow countrymen in a way that won't get mended and ironically just want to leave. Dear Scotland, If you leave can I please buy citizenship? I just don't get all this division - or witness it on daily basis. England and the 'English' (whoever they are) are much maligned but England is the part of the UK refugees and economic migrants look to to give them sanctuary and a better way of life. In 2011 there were over 63 million people living in the UK, 53 million of whom live in England, almost 84 percent of the total population. Of course Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can take the moral high ground if they wish. I imagine the population of England has increased in the past five years. It is no longer a country to grow old in, old people will soon be encouraged to shuffle off the mortal coil by their own hand so as not to be a burden on society or their hard pressed offspring. What a state of affairs - large sections of the population feel powerless to do anything about the decline of everything they previously took for granted. We need a massive injection of good will and love to our neighbours and fellows. And I'm not coming from any religious ethos by saying that. Perhaps the 'get-togethers' suggested by the family of Jo Cox to mark the first anniversary of her murder may help. It was the murder of Jo Cox that made me fully realise the correct course was to vote remain IN the EU and the nasty right-wing element which brought down that good woman needs to be fought at every turn. In or Out we have to become a kinder society - its the only way to survive the turmoil of the coming years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Feb 22, 2017, 12:54
Feb 22, 2017, 10:11
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The Remain vote was statistically unwinnable. In two post 9/11 and pre UKIP European elections we had seen 5-6% of the electorate vote for an extreme right wing party. Every one of them a leaver. If you assume the rest of the country was split fairly evenly then that is 47% vs 53% before the Remainers get their boots on. If you add the fact that the 1m ish Greens combined with what remains of the to-the-left-of-a-Guardian-editorial constituency were split (fairly evenly I imagine) then there was no chance of bridging that gap. None. Even without LBC, Sky, the Mail and the Express et al doing their best to drive us back to the 30s. I can't say I figured that out beforehand but looking back I can't see how any other outcome was possible in a country naturally inclined towards a conservatism of the Thatcher variety.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Feb 22, 2017, 10:21
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"It is no longer a country to grow old in" That's me stuffed then! It's also not going to be a country to be young in (even though most youngsters voted Remain) so that's my kids stuffed too! A low cost, low wage offshore economy in which farmers, industrial workers and northerners are set to be impoverished, social services won't be available and Tory philosophy will be embedded in the economy forever - and the sodding turkeys voted for this bleak unmendable Christmas. So you'll forgive me for not wanting to make the best of it!
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Feb 22, 2017, 12:54
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To be fair Wales can't take the moral high ground either, as they voted Leave too (except bigger places like Cardiff). I don't like the divisions either, I don't like the idea of the union splitting (sorry Drew) but I can completely understand why Scotland and NI in particular would want to be rid of the poisonous politics of Westminster. It's the English that keep voting Tory, inflicting that government on the other nations of the union whether they want it or not. I went out the morning after the GE and could hardly bear to look at anyone I met, on the basis that the majority of them decided to vote for the politics of selfishness and greed, xenophobia and insularity. I wanted to scream, or smash something, or maybe just run away and hide. In a way the EU Referendum result a year later shouldn't have been a surprise, as the signs of what kind of country England wants to be were already plainly there. I live in a reasonably affluent town, on the edge of the Tory heartlands of the rural Cotswolds. But the signs of poverty are still to be seen, the massive take-up of food banks, the rough sleepers in the doorways, the increasingly normalized unpleasantness to immigrants. I hope that the English will wake up from their sleepwalking to the one-party state they have been creating over the last decade, and remember that we live in a rich country that can afford to support the poor and the needy, rather than leaving them to fend for themselves as long as "I'm all right". That, sadly, is the England I see all around me now, and I'm afraid I don't like it one bit.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Feb 22, 2017, 18:08
Feb 22, 2017, 13:47
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Yes, it is a puzzle why the majority of people keep voting Tory, I can only hope Labour Party will be able to fight the next election under Jeremy Corbyn who seems a lot more effective as a leader these days. The town I live in is not so affluent, there are a lot of rough sleepers and a large EU population. I haven't noticed any normalized unpleasantness- I don't think ordinary people would dare even if they were thinking it.
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drewbhoy 2554 posts |
Feb 23, 2017, 09:37
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tjj wrote: Yes, it is a puzzle why the majority of people keep voting Tory, I can only hope Labour Party will be able to fight the next election under Jeremy Corbyn who seems a lot more effective as a leader these days. The town I live in is not so affluent, there are a lot of rough sleepers and a large EU population. I haven't noticed any normalized unpleasantness- I don't think ordinary people would dare even if they were thinking it. With you Tjj, I really hope the Labour Party in England and Wales get their act together and unite with Corbyn to remove this heartless Govt.
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