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FourWinds
FourWinds
10943 posts

Re: schizothreadic
Nov 05, 2002, 14:15
Be very careful about using the word 'intellectual' around here :-)

Perhaps if I took more time and considered my words more deeply then I might be able to back up half the crap I write on here.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: schizothreadic
Nov 05, 2002, 14:16
> see !! in all the time it took me towrite
> that u2 have had a full scale intellectual
> debate BUGGER!!
>
Let's leave Bono and the others out of it, OK? I'm not sure they have much to add to this discussion - and would hardly call their last album "a full scale intellectual debate" (though i'm quite fond of it, and all).
RiotGibbon
1527 posts

Mental Health and meaning
Nov 05, 2002, 14:17
I agree with your general observations about the vole-crap of language, but there a sinister element to this specific example ...

Yes, it does seem to be the case that the most popular meaning of schizophrenia is "split-personality".

Second most popular, at the moment, is "knife-wielding", as in "let lock up the knife-wielding schizo nutters"

unfortunately, this is a *direct* quote from David Blunkett, who unfortunately, is Home Secretary, and unlike most shit-spouting saloon bar reactionaries, is actually in a position to do this (or get someone more poorly paid to do it)

you can read more about it starting from Here:
http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/story/0,8150,800626,00.html

but basically, there's a new mental health act (download here: http://www.doh.gov.uk/mentalhealth/draftbill2002/draftbilljune02.pdf)

that will allow much more detention of the mentally ill, partly because of the subtle shifts in perception and meaning that Grufty seems so proud of ...

care to comment, Grufty, or should I say, *Jailor* Jim?

RG
lissy
202 posts

Re: schizothreadic
Nov 05, 2002, 14:22
aahhhhhh i'm chokingto death with laughter, nice to ve known u! aaaaablleeeeeeerhhhhhhh
xxx
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: Mental Health and meaning
Nov 05, 2002, 14:31
ummm... Jailor Jim here. I have to say that those arguing loudest for strict literalism in written communications appear least rigorous at applying it. I could be wrong, but i don't believe i've tried to defend, justify or promote the gradual redefinition of words. I am merely pointing out what (i believe to be) the facts about how language works. Maybe i've let slip with a line or two that implies personal support of this process... can't imagine i would, but who knows?

As i said (further down somewhere), i used the word "schizophrenic" in its 'colloquial' sense... i applied the meaning that (i believe) is far more common and accepted than the medical definition (and oh, by the way, check out the dictionary definition of "schizophrenic"... it includes "2. Of, relating to, or characterized by the coexistence of disparate or antagonistic elements" - so maybe the literalists might do some fookin' research before making wild accusations).

And RG, I am not unfamiliar with mental illness; and to imply - even in jest - that i support the incarceration of those diagnosed with schizophrenia (just because Blunkett is unaware of the inappropriateness of applying the colloquial definition where the medical one is required) is a little below the belt.
FourWinds
FourWinds
10943 posts

Re: schizothreadic
Nov 05, 2002, 14:34
I'm sorry GJ. Did I not congratulate you on stating the flaming obvious? Isn't silence on a matter usually understood to mean acceptance of a point and an inclination not to follow that line any further? No? See how easily misunderstandings can arise if they are not spoken out loud, clearly in a language that everyone can follow.

But next time, try countering with the word 'cool'. To be a 'cool person' used to mean that one was not too warm and not too cold, but now it has a different definition as we all know. Unfortunately, this does not have the impact of throwing the word 'gay' into an argument does it?

Yes dictionaries take time to catch up - and sometimes they take too long - but words have to evolve a constant, steady meaning before they can be defined in the dictionary. Dictionaries do not dictate the language to us, we dictate it to the dictionary. That statement whole heartedly supports your side of the issue and I whole heartedly agree. BUT! all I said was that in a formal situation 'unaccepted' uses of a word should be avoided for your own protection more than anything.

Do you not agree that there are people out there that get really picky at the first sign of them losing an argument? Surely you have encountered these tossers (i.e. people who throw things). All I said was that in order not to give these people the slightest little thing to grab hold of in desperation you should avoid some usages of some words in certain situations.
RiotGibbon
1527 posts

Good Old Days
Nov 05, 2002, 14:40
it was *much* easier when we used to burn them.

right, so that's mental health and language dealt with (all GJ's fault), let's move onto the Sphinx's missing nose ... where have you put it?

Don't worry "Jailor", you're coming across loud and clear, even if you have clearly been looking in a dictionary. It's either this or "Visual C# Programming"

i wonder if FW is following this part of the thread ... what can we bait him with? He'll probably pretend he hasn't, just to draw us in ...

RG
lissy
202 posts

Re: schizothreadic
Nov 05, 2002, 14:41
i 'm not sure about your last comment... responsibility to pasta eating frenchies kinda thing!! heehee.. surely if you were to monitor your lingustic expressions in order to be understood , you would need to use a "uniform" language , perhaps even the queen's english? seems rather contradictory 2 me sir?... ahem , explain please..
x
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

my final word
Nov 05, 2002, 14:41
see above (re: actual dictionary definition of the word "schizophrenic").


PS: i now bow out of this discussion. At no point did i see it as an argument that i was "winning or losing", but i've suddenly realised that everyone else - in fact - does. I was challenged on my use of the word "schizophrenic". As i happen to have strong feelings on that subject - i didn't wish to portray myself as being in any way dismissive of people with mental health problems. So i simply explained the reasons (reasons i still believe are perfectly valid) for my choice of language. To those who saw this as a duel... i concede. You win. You're all 100% right in everything you said.

Groove on.
RiotGibbon
1527 posts

Re: my final word
Nov 05, 2002, 14:43
I liked the bit when FW admitted he was wrong
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