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Moon Cat 8987 posts |
Sep 06, 2000, 12:43
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Agreed! Still think cucumber is the ultimate evil though...
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Annexus Quam 916 posts |
Sep 06, 2000, 16:52
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Have you tried okra? In some cultures it is given "evil" names - the one I remember is "sticky fingers". Most suited would be its Awl-Kosmik No-Evil name of "vaginal dementia" if you know what I mean.
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Shrimp 1115 posts |
Sep 06, 2000, 17:15
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What I said was one trip or mind expanding drug - the trip or drug could be anything including Jung. The point being that we need to teach expansion of the mind instead of constriction.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Sep 06, 2000, 20:51
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Hmmm, a few things to say here. Firstly, as a matter of simple fact, the suggestions by Shrimp and Mare-C that acid might be laced with some other substancce, or even be another drug entirely, are baseless. LSD is an incredibly potent drug, you only need a tiny amount to get whammed. I mean, imagine a piece of paper dipped in orange juice and then dried - how much of an orange juice experience would you get? Yet with LSD that's quite enough! The thing about strychnine being used in the process is also totally untrue as well. With E or speed, you need a much larger amount, so it's easy to cut with shite. Acid is nigh-impossible to cut, and as it is ludicrously cheap, any substitiute drug would be more expensive! The only way to rip someone off is to sell them a piece of paper that's not been dipped. Mare-C's worry that it would be a tad hypocritical to use such a synthetic product is wayward too. Right now you're sat in front of a keyboard made of unnatural synthetic plastic. And what degree of bizarre processing goes on to turn soya (a *bean* for fucks sake!) into ice cream or rashers or whatever? But I suspect most of us happily munch away. Synthetic/natural really isn't an issue. Also, you're consuming a miniscule amount of LSD; the issue is not to do with metabolics, it's to do with psychology and spirituality. Personally, I love acid. I do it very rarely (not at all so far this year, in fact), but if I were on my death bed it would certainly rank in the Top Ten Things I'm Most Glad I Did. The randomness and uncontrollability that makes Mare-C wary is precisely what I adore about it. Anything can get weird, or easy, or captivating, or beautiful (when else would you spend half an hour blissed out staring at a rusty car bonnet?). There is always a feeling of potential scareyness and absurdity, which adds to the alert excitement for me. That said, it's not *totally* uncontrollable; you get so reactive to your environment that a change of place/music/thing you're playing with in your hands/lighting can steer it very effectively. Some people with mental health problems have even found it to be useful (it was initially used to treat severe alcoholism), but there are also a lot of people for whom it's been the trigger for their latent problems. Like any thing that involves psychological and spiritual journeying, some people come out enriched, some find it disturbing, and a few get very damaged. Respect for the drug is important. That's not to necessarily susbscribe to the 'use/abuse' distinction; certainly I'd take issue with Mooncat's idea that necking a load at once is abuse. It depends who's necking it and why. The acid experience is as individual as the person taking it. The best thing I heard about the after effects was in Paul McCartney's 'admission' interview from the 60s where the said that it opened doors for him, and that whilst he could have reached the feeligns and ideas by other routes, acid is what did it for him. Not one to do every day, but for me it's the one I've got the most from in terms of opening my mind, and in terms of having a right laugh.
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aa23 5 posts |
Sep 06, 2000, 21:54
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The question about drugs causing mental health problems is a rather vexed one. Working in a mental health setting I see plenty of people with psychotic illnesses - it's now rare to find someone having their first episode of psychosis who doesn't use/abuse drugs-though acid is much less commonly used in the people I see than heroin/e's/speed. Partly that reflects drug use amongst young people (for it is predominently the under 23's who get their first episode of psychosis) and i guess there are a number of people who have a latent vulnerability to psychosis whose drug use "uncovers" an illness that might otherwise have lain dormant. However, I've also come across others who have started using hallucinogenics after they've started having their first psychotic symptoms (long before they come to psych attention) possibly as a form of self medication to assist in making sense of a world gone weird. And it was used relatively recently (early 60's)in psychiatric settings (eg in individual psychotherapy) to facilitate the therapeutic process. - I know at least one now retired psychiatrist who used to take it along with his patient in the therapy setting... I was born too late man!!
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Shrimp 1115 posts |
Sep 06, 2000, 21:58
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Fine points Mr Merrick. You are correct with LSD being pure otherwise it ain't LSD. It is what is sold as LSD which is the unpure area just like things being 95% organic. It either is or it isn't. Just because somebody says that this blot is LSD does not mean that it is. It could be anything. That is why I don't partake.
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mare-C 156 posts |
Sep 06, 2000, 23:45
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Yeah, apologies for sounding a little reactionary in my reply - no intention of wilfully misreading you, just felt it was a point worth discussing further.
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mare-C 156 posts |
Sep 07, 2000, 00:55
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Re: hypocrisy. Had second thoughts about that myself as soon as I'd posted. Certainly had no intention of suggesting that I avoid hypocrisy in any of my everyday life! I came over a little DEA there, for which apo's. Ta for your clarifications - any misapprehension on my part simply down to ignorance. What I was trying to get over was that the feelings of bond-slipping & escape velocity which some of you have experienced with the aid of (not simply because of) lysergia aren't always the most easily-assimilated of emotions. I referred to my panic symptoms not to suggest anything negative about the process of tripping, merely to propose that the individual's initial experience of mental freefall can be overwhelming. For all my doubts, I would far rather have had my first inner journeys assisted & in the company of friends than had them burst in on me at inopportune moments Furthermore, although I've had some great support & education over the years, I've also been pooh-poohed in no uncertain terms by parts of the medical establishment - indeed, I was once refused any medication or even advice by a GP, who assumed I was suffering what she termed "acid flashbacks" (perhaps this experience has left more of a mark on me than I care to admit). I think what I was trying to get over was that if you're not actively seeking those other levels of perception, instinct or self-preservation seems to encourage the mind to turn away from them. The controlled experimental use of LSD such as practised by Huxley I have no problem with (if it was good enough for Cary Grant, it's good enough for me!) - in fact, I'm glad that the notion of tripping is discussed more & more in modern western society. For the longest time, it's remained a taboo (strangely when you consider that most other cultures down the ages have accepted the shamanic or mystical as a valid & necessary part of their being). In the UK especially, we still suffer mightily from an historical emphasis on control & order. My blood boils regularly at the everyday tabloid mentality, which proscribes that half-arsed dream-analysis & yr daily two-line horoscope are perfectly acceptable, but any other, further discussion of the subject is off-limits - that higher orders & spiritual leanings are to be placed on the exact same level as the pint-after-work or the Sunday-drive. It's taken years for me to talk frankly about my difficulties with my family for just this reason - the idea that you should just pull yourself together (ignoring the fact that it's the process of attempting to understand which is causing the blockage). Ultimately, I was able to explain the condition & my resultant behavioural anomalies by explaining that, somehow, the deeper you go in periods of doubt, the higher the highs when you return to a balanced level of existence. Not so far, in the end, from what everyone here has been saying about the acid experience. The expanding of perceptual horizons, & all that. I have to say that I feel a good deal better these days as a result of having to accept that I have a tendency towards mental exhaustion & depression - ultimately, I had to accept that the condition isn't exactly curable, but it is possible to co-exist with it. In other words, I've had to learn to trip, because sometimes my natural chemical balance is going to send me on one whether I like it or not. Although I wouldn't go through it all again given the choice, I'm glad I learned certain things as a result of my problems. The frank & open discussion of mental exploration & the possibilities of this life we lead which HH specialises in (& offered with love as well! So terribly rare in today's McLife) can only benefit all of us in the long run. So, thanks for the reply, & sorry again if I came over at all Sunday School on the matter.
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mare-C 156 posts |
Sep 07, 2000, 08:42
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In above post, pls ignore that bit about "In the UK especially" in penultimate paragraph - left in there by accident during slapdash editing of original rantings. Early-hours brain misfire, apo's.
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Moon Cat 8987 posts |
Sep 07, 2000, 10:02
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I know what you mean when you say that there is an element of control involved in a trip. Whenever my friends and I indulge we always make sure there is a suitable ambience for the "voyage". i.e music, lighting. The only downer in this situation is that sometimes just when you're suitably immersed, you need to go to the loo and thus interrupt the flow of things, so to speak! When I talk of abuse I'm more referring to the worrying trend of the day of people not just taking drugs (and alcohol etc,) for a good night out, but taking bucketloads of things...way more than is "safe" or needed for an effect. You hear the stories of people not just taking things but guzzling stuff (22 E's recently reported for one wreck-head) to the point of desperation. Personally, I find this a bit much, whatever your poison is. For me, this seems to go from socialbility, or seeking an experience or even just a laugh to basic fucking yourself up. I am aware that tolerances to certain things build up with regular use, but I do worry about the sheer volumes you see people taking and/ or drinking. Call it self-abuse if you will, but I think it can act as ammo for the Daily Mail brigade when some of the stats on the quantities some people do start rolling in. There was one classic quote recently on the local news that made me laugh though: The report was on the fact that "the kidz" no longer seem to drink to be sociable but to get arse-quakingly pissed. A hapless reporte asked a group of Ben Sherman scrotes "So lads, why do you drink so much when you're out" Scrote reply in best nasal Manc accent "Takes the edge off the E's like". Priceless!!!!
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