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YerArseInParsley
365 posts

Re: SocAll
Oct 28, 2002, 19:53
See in Scotland its differerent as we have the 'indepedence' ''bandwagon' to jump upon.

I've only talked to one SWP member in depth. He was worth ignoring though he never lied he never told the real truth.


There an infinite number of issues, and an infinite number of positions to take. Even though you will not agree with any particular party, I advise you all to be militant in your own beliefs.
YerArseInParsley
365 posts

Re: The equivalency of injustice
Oct 28, 2002, 20:08
"The primary (overshadowing all others) "evil" in Hitler's act is not the anti-semitic motivation. If it were; then the man who smirks that once in his life is just as "patently evil" as Hitler. No, the primary injustice is the torture and murder of 6 million."


No the primary injustice is the dehumanisation of 'the others' that allows the genocide to continue, whether it be expressed by subtle discrimination or outright genocide its the same motivation.

Bear in mind that when the Scots start genociding the english, then I am your only defender.

"Similarly, drawing an equivalency between Scotland and Palestine simply because of a identity of motive, is ignoring the fact that palestinian people are murdered daily by their oppressors, live herded into refugee camps under incredible curfews, have their infrastructure systematically destroyed by an occupying military, are subjected to random internment and end up reaching for an automatic weapon before they are 10.
Unless there's some serious media censorship going on; i suspect that's not happening in Scotland."

No. thats not what is happening in Scotland today, I agree, though it has happened in the past. There are examples closer to home that we could use to illustrate your example before we move onto the Scots or Palestinians, does that mean the Scots would not be better served by their own local parliament ? Palestine is not the only subjectated country, and the rules for subjectation do not start with Israeli rules.


The English oppress the Scots. I'm not whining about that, its the fault of the Scots more than than the English, but it is a fact that is demonstratable.

'All just my opinion, y'dig?'
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Agree to disagree
Oct 28, 2002, 20:36
> No the primary injustice is the dehumanisation
> of 'the others' that allows the genocide to
> continue
>
Sorry, but we'll not agree on this one. For me the primary injustice is the genocide. I've been in dehumanising situations before; felt myself reduced against my will, in different ways for different reasons, to something less than human - by people or systems or bureaucracies. Do i consider those people guilty of the same primary injustice as was visited upon minorities in Germany in the 30s/40s?

Like fuck do i.

You appear to be placing "attitudes" or "beliefs" which we would probably both agree are reprehensible into the same category as "actions" which we would both agree are reprehensible.

Frankly, i believe that to be one step away from thought-police and simple cannot see how you can justify it. But that doesn't mean i'm right and you're wrong; merely that we view this issue differently.

If a person views me as *less* simply because i'm a "bloody paddy" (or a jew, were i one, or black or Palestinian), that dehumanisation is not the ethical equivalent of acting upon it. You can argue that one leads to the other - perhaps with statistics on your side; but to assume that is universal implies a prejudicial attitude towards them which actually _is_ the ethical equivalent of their dehumanisation of you - The Other.

You are implying that the person cannot rise upon what is probably cultural conditioning or political manipulation, and restrain their behaviour based upon an over-riding sense of empathy - The Rehumaniser(TM).

The fact is, people do change their attitudes or modify their behaviour based upon factors other than a certain set of prejudices... to draw an equivalency of injustice between someone guilty of acting in a manner which dehumanises others, and someone guilty of acting in a manner which murders others is unsustainable (i think).
YerArseInParsley
365 posts

Agreed.
Oct 29, 2002, 00:16
"The fact is, people do change their attitudes or modify their behaviour based upon factors other than a certain set of prejudices... to draw an equivalency of injustice between someone guilty of acting in a manner which dehumanises others, and someone guilty of acting in a manner which murders others is unsustainable (i think)."

I can't even follow that argument so I'm going to have to concede. All I can say is "Bloody Jock! Jocko ! Away back to Jock land!" is not a kick in the arse away from concentration camps, effect follows cause most assiduously.
Theres plenty of Scots here so I see no reason to defend the SNP from comparisons that would flatter the BNP.
And anyway Jim, what are you doing butting in when you've yet to address last week s contretemp over the oil blockade ? Get to work !
YerArseInParsley
365 posts

Re: YerArse
Oct 29, 2002, 00:24
PS In case it isn't obvious, I'm an anarchist (or in other terms an absolute monarch with no subjects) so I have no leader myself.
The only time I have seen Tommy I stood directly behind him to avoid the full foghorn effect of his speech. Criticise him however you want, but that boy has a fine pair of lungs on him.
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