dodge one
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 11, 2010, 17:09
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Moonie thanks for saying that. I thought about scolding Dave, but i didn't have the heart.
It's NOT ass kissing. It's a necessary diplomacy, until all of us can get off oil.
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handofdave
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 11, 2010, 18:11
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dodge one wrote: Moonie thanks for saying that. I thought about scolding Dave, but i didn't have the heart.
It's NOT ass kissing. It's a necessary diplomacy, until all of us can get off oil.
We could have been rid of them and their oil long ago, tho. But instead we were more interested in 'livin' large' ourselves (by that I mean the USA).
All that money that disappeared into the pockets of Wall Street, all the gas that got burned in oversized American cars, all the money that people blew on buying houses they couldn't afford, all the trillions that went up in smoke building nuclear warheads and invading Iraq and Afghanistan, if it'd gone into the next generation energy grid... with renewables... we could have been rid of the need for 'diplomacy' with those despotic cretins.
From Reagan, thru Bush 1, Clinton, and Bush 2, the mantra was 'we are invincible and we deserve everything we want'.
That hubris has come back to spank us good and hard.
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dodge one
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 11, 2010, 18:24
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What country of any size did it any diffrent? France? There Nuclear. Which is the direction we will go in, like it or not. There's nothing else that will sustain the energy needs of the growing population. Even now, there's speculation about a shitload of oil across the Atlantic ocean from South America to Africa. Worst possible energy source? Undoubtedly. Will it still be exploited? Almost certainly. 8 trillion projected for 2025. All of em gonna want an IPOD/LAPTOP/FLATSCREEN/FOOD/Snazzy Clothes made in china and fuck all else.
Thats the problem of the WORLD, not just the USA. Is all i'm sayin'.
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dodge one
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 11, 2010, 18:32
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Ooops !! I have to type slower.....It's 8 Billion projected populace , Not 8 'TRILLION'.....for 2025. We'd be 10 deep on top of each other with 8 trillion i expect. Were still fucked anyway.
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handofdave
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 11, 2010, 18:45
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dodge one wrote: Thats the problem of the WORLD, not just the USA. Is all i'm sayin'.
Yes, well, the rest of the world is the rest of the world... in some of the more enlightened corners of it they've been tooling up for the next generation while we've turned our manufacturing economy into a 'service' economy and now into a self-cannibalizing ripoff economy.
Our country has not had any real leadership in decades, Dodge. It's all been a huge evasion of the inevitable since Carter was ignored in favor of Reagan's message: "greed is good... live large.... don't worry about it, the rich are in charge... AMERICA NUMBER ONE! AMERICA NUMBER ONE!"
Bread and circuses.
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dodge one
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 11, 2010, 19:14
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I suppose i may see our country a bit diffrent than you Dave, because i've allways supported it. I Drive a Ford, My only new Motorcycle i've ever bought is a Harley Davidson, 90% of my instrument/amps/etc.....collection: American Made. My TV? a 1994 19" Zenith. That i've repaired myself twice.It was the last of the American made ones. My shoes/boots?
American made. The rest of it i have very little control of because of other peoples personal buying habits. I don't point the finger of blame squarely at the 'GOVERNMENT' . I point it right back at my neighbors all around me and there purchasing habits. No one ever had to tell me that buying a foreign made item wouldn't be good for our own economy or industry.
I could make this EXACT same arguement for Britain too. There used to be DOZENS of motorcycle manufacturers there. ALL gone. For the Same reasons. Buy the cute little HondaZuki I'm old enough to remember. BSA, NORTON, TRIUMPH {the real Meriden one's}, Ariel, AJS, Velocette, VINCENT, SUNBEAM, DOUGLAS, MATCHLESS, ROYAL ENFIELD.....dozens others too. Thats just the motorcycles. Wanna go on about the cars too?
I could. Last i heard LOTUS was owned outright by the asians. PROTON i believe. What the fuck ?
The EXACT same thing happened to Britain.
OK...Of course IRAQ was all wrong. But not Afghanistan. I will not engage in a debate about that either. 300 people nearly lost their lives this XMAS eve because of the shit that grows there. Not the opium. Terrorism.
I am a staunch supporter of Homegrown economy. I'd be that way wherever i lived. Sorry Dave, i don't see the USA as a big horrible boogieman. My memory goes back too far. I know how many Trillions OUR country has poured into the protection and security of the rest of the world. The Food and Aid to impovrished countries, the emergency relief at a moments notice. THats the USA that i live in. My support is my lifestyle.
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wychburyman
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 11, 2010, 20:45
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yep. I've never understood this recent fashion for wanting to head out there. Seems shallow and obscene ostentacious show of lack of bad taste to me
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handofdave
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Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 12, 2010, 01:22
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We're both correct.
I'm not indiscriminately bashing the USA for everything, and not saying that our leaders are too blame for everything (somebody had to vote for those jokers after all).
The writing has been on the wall about the moral compromises we make to get our oil, and the environmental effects of that addiction, for decades. What's particularly nuts about it is that we buy from people who fund terrorism, then spend huge sums to fight terrorism. Talk about a snake eating it's own tail.
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Moon Cat
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Edited Jan 12, 2010, 03:15
Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 12, 2010, 03:15
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The decline in British made cars and bikes in the UK wasn't just simply down to people choosing to buy foreign, cheaper models. It was also quite a lot to do with the then Tory government deciding to pretty much dismantle and destroy manufacturing industry as it was often seen as being more trouble than it was 'worth'. The same flag-wavers that would bang on about "Great" Britain saw fit to essentially render its industries inert.
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handofdave
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Edited Jan 12, 2010, 04:15
Re: NUKE DUBAI
Jan 12, 2010, 04:15
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The decline in the US manufacturing base was largely due to the same forces. And the trouble the American car companies have seen is more to do with the incompetence, short-term profiteering, and engineering laziness of Detroit.
It's pretty obvious to me. While America sank into a smug revery, convinced that it was untouchable, other nations stayed hungry, stayed focused, stayed in school...
And the USA's economy shifted from making real things to merely moving money around in a shell game designed to siphon it off to the unscrupulous. No investment in anything. Just a big game of grab and run.
I'm being rhetorical, of course... I'm just speaking of the worst of it. But all our current economic troubles (foreclosures, bubbles, unemployment, etc) are a direct product of that massive negligence.
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