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When is Enough ENOUGH !
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The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Edited Nov 10, 2009, 11:35
When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 10, 2009, 11:21
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6533107/Every-phone-call-email-and-internet-click-stored-by-state-spying-databases.html

( thanks Daminxa ).

NB: I am NOT a Telegraph reader. I just scan'em all on the Interweb. Honest.
:-).
Daminxa
Daminxa
1415 posts

Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 10, 2009, 11:40
I heard about this yesterday and wondered what 'they' would make of our message board and whether or not we'd all be branded as 'dangerous subversives'!

You know what I hope 'they' DO read this message board so we can put our points of view across, and the first thing that springs to mind is that imho alcohol IS a more dangerous drug than cannabis and should be regulated as such. I know it generates masses of revenue from tax etc but another way should be found of raising this money. In my personal experience, alcohol is the most mind-altering of all drugs. I've done things whilst pissed that I'd never have done whilst sober or, indeed, on any other kind of narcotic. Alcohol makes me feel ill; I know to some extent I've been poisoned - I don't get that on any other kind of drug either.

I also agree that ecstacy is no more dangerous than horse riding. I ride horses, incredibly badly, and have fallen off and hurt myself on several occasions. I have NEVER sustained scratches and bruises or had to go to an osteopath after a night out on an E.

I'm not saying all drugs should be legalised, necessarily, I just do think things are totally arse about tit as they are, so, if 'THEY' are reading, take heed, this is my view.

(Climbs off soapbox and puts the kettle on...)
The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 10, 2009, 11:41
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ministers-cancel-big-brother-database-1817708.html

It just get's more confusing. Let's hope this good news is genuine. Interesting how the Tories have not ruled it out for the future though. Be vey afraid. Sorry about the downer folks.
The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 10, 2009, 11:43
Hooray for subversives. No carbon based sentient creature with any cosmic cojones should take this shit.

As always : Peace and Love.
The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 10, 2009, 11:49
Daminxa wrote:
I heard about this yesterday and wondered what 'they' would make of our message board and whether or not we'd all be branded as 'dangerous subversives'!

You know what I hope 'they' DO read this message board so we can put our points of view across, and the first thing that springs to mind is that imho alcohol IS a more dangerous drug than cannabis and should be regulated as such. I know it generates masses of revenue from tax etc but another way should be found of raising this money. In my personal experience, alcohol is the most mind-altering of all drugs. I've done things whilst pissed that I'd never have done whilst sober or, indeed, on any other kind of narcotic. Alcohol makes me feel ill; I know to some extent I've been poisoned - I don't get that on any other kind of drug either.

I also agree that ecstacy is no more dangerous than horse riding. I ride horses, incredibly badly, and have fallen off and hurt myself on several occasions. I have NEVER sustained scratches and bruises or had to go to an osteopath after a night out on an E.

I'm not saying all drugs should be legalised, necessarily, I just do think things are totally arse about tit as they are, so, if 'THEY' are reading, take heed, this is my view.

(Climbs off soapbox and puts the kettle on...)


I'm like a child with a new toy re. this posting links businness .Sorry. I'll
get bored with it soon enough Enjoy. Says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX1CvW38cHA
Daminxa
Daminxa
1415 posts

Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 10, 2009, 11:56
That, my friend, was a very necessary post. A good point well made!
stray
stray
1630 posts

Edited Nov 11, 2009, 17:55
Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 11, 2009, 17:53
The cost of this project would be insane, seriously, and the govt. don't have the money so it won't happen. 2 billon quid is an incredibly low estimate imo, it will easily run into the tens of billions. The amount of traffic they're talking about capturing, and holding forever so that they can fulfill their batshit insane 'guilt by association' dreams, will make the data storage at CERN look like a USB thumbdrive in comparison.

Basically, this, and a load more IT projects that the govt. get all excited about are being lead/dreamed up by certain private IT companies who have been sucking cash out of the state and delivering shoddy crap since Labour took power. They see this as a way of getting ludicrously expensive, and fundamentally technically undeliverable projects to be swallowed (forcibly by legal requirements) by the private sector as well now, as they're running out of shite to sell the govt.(ISPs, mobile service providers etc, etc).

Also, ISPS and mobile phone companies will sue the govt, and that legal case will drag on for a very, very long time.
The Sea Cat
The Sea Cat
3608 posts

Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 11, 2009, 17:59
stray wrote:
The cost of this project would be insane, seriously, and the govt. don't have the money so it won't happen. 2 billon quid is an incredibly low estimate imo, it will easily run into the tens of billions. The amount of traffic they're talking about capturing, and holding forever so that they can fulfill their batshit insane 'guilt by association' dreams, will make the data storage at CERN look like a USB thumbdrive in comparison.

Basically, this, and a load more IT projects that the govt. get all excited about are being lead/dreamed up by certain private IT companies who have been sucking cash out of the state and delivering shoddy crap since Labour took power. They see this as a way of getting ludicrously expensive, and fundamentally technically undeliverable projects to be swallowed (forcibly by legal requirements) by the private sector now as they're running out of shite to sell the govt.(ISPs, mobile service providers etc, etc).


Very good point. The amount of internet traffic, for example, is so vast for each ISP to monitor as it stands now, regardless of future 'plans' that it's totally unworkable. That's why they trash data every 3 months or so as they cannot possibly store it, or so I'm told. Still, the principle behind it is insidious in the extreme.
Popel Vooje
Popel Vooje
4484 posts

Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 11, 2009, 18:15
Daminxa wrote:
I have NEVER sustained scratches and bruises or had to go to an osteopath after a night out on an E.


You obviously haven't been getting good quality pills, then.
stray
stray
1630 posts

Edited Nov 11, 2009, 18:29
Re: When is Enough ENOUGH !
Nov 11, 2009, 18:27
The Sea Cat wrote:

Very good point. The amount of internet traffic, for example, is so vast for each ISP to monitor as it stands now, regardless of future 'plans' that it's totally unworkable. That's why they trash data every 3 months or so as they cannot possibly store it, or so I'm told. Still, the principle behind it is insidious in the extreme.


Hang on...

*puts his Information Theorist/Systems Designer hat on and wanders into a design meeting with the client*

How would you leverage this data sir ? I mean, you want to be able to analyse it yeah ? so.. you need to come up with a way of modelling it right, as in store it in a logical fashion, decide the real relationships between the data yep ? So how do you want to query it then ? By date ? Heh.. yeah m'kay. Oh, and by individuals (people), right, a unique key then, high cardinality queries, you betcha. Cos, of course its so easy to work out what mobile phones, many email accounts that a certain individual uses isn't it... oh wait.. no it isn't. Also, sir, people do change ISPs you know. Yeah well we can store a list of all peoples multiple electronic identities, finding them out could be a tad tricky, but lets put that on the back burner for now. Anyway, do you have the remotest idea how long a query would take to run ? I'm not talking about a simple query such as... say... what were all the communications of a given individual over a given week, but you know, something worthwhile like.. Which people used the following keywords in their communication that went to someone/anyone (not any given person) in say Pakistan..Of course language/slang translation services would also have to be built into the system, oh and people do encrypt data, but hey we will know they're talking to someone right ?... What ?... you don't want to run a query like that one ? You want to run one like my first example ?.. Excuse my language sir, but WTF FOR!!! So... how do you identify which people whose records are worth querying then ?... mmm ? Oh, the system will tell you will it ?... Lets go over this again, I'll draw diagrams this time... Sorry ?.. oh yes, we can do keyword searches, of course there would language/slang problems, and well there is also this little concept familiar to people with a Knowledge Management background called 'context' and identifying same etc.. Basically, sir, if you think the data itself takes up a lot of physical floor space I can assure the flexible abstraction model you're going to have to build on top of that..sorry.. you're going to have to basically store the data many multiple times in order for it come close to what you think it will be able to do. Look, how you model/store the data will create the limits on how you can query/use the data. In short,whatever you decide will create an analytical scatter gun that will create a heap of machine unidentifiable false positives. So, have fun with it, here is the invoice.

*takes off silly hat*

I could go on, but I think I've covered the main problems.
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