duckbreath
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Edited Oct 25, 2009, 23:39
Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 25, 2009, 23:37
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Thurmond started out Dem and then moved to Republicans after LBJ 'betrayed' the Democratic South by introducing all the civil rights legislation. Have you read Robert Caro's biography of LBJ? A great book. He describes the Vietnam disaster but also the heroism of Johnson slowly building his power in Texas and in the racist democratic South and then eventually shafting them in the ass with the civil rights stuff and they never forgave him and his leadership pretty much led to the dismantling of the political base of the southern racists after that...
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duckbreath
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Edited Oct 26, 2009, 00:57
Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 00:33
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The Dems might have made moves against institutional racism half a century ago but not sure 'purged' is the right word - Robert Byrd is still Dem US Senator. Ex-KKK and recently said he "couldn't remember" if he attended any lynchings... Also, it wasn't Kennedy or the Dems who ordered desegregation - it was the Supreme Court and (Republican) President Eisenhower who enforced it. Think it is misplaced to try and throw white power fascism at the Republicans - not as simple as that. Recent experience of the BNP saying they are speaking for working-class 'disenfranchised' 'patriots' shows that it is not as simple as connecting fascism with mainstream party ideologies - all of them are vulnerable.
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grufty jim
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Edited Oct 26, 2009, 01:28
Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 01:26
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handofdave wrote: In the discussion and debating of solving the problem of the BNP it's occurred to me that there already is a precedent in W. Germany. They've made any display or dissemination of Nazism a crime.
Seems like it'd solve a lot of problems in one blow.
Thoughts?
I don't think that'd be a great idea. People should be able to express views that are repugnant. As I've said over and over during this debate, I don't see the Question Time thing as a censorship issue. I'm not a big fan of restricting free speech, though accept that in certain specific circumstances restrictions are required.
Banning political parties should be the absolute last resort. Fascism needs to be constantly opposed, but using the state to ban the expression of fascist views has potentially dangerous consequences.
There is no contradiction in accepting the existence of the BNP as a legal organisation and wanting to see them marginalised and kept outside the mainstream political debate.
handofdave wrote: BTW, I'd respond on the other thread but it's getting a bit long... I've been misunderstood and charged with equating mainstream right wing-ism with fascism. I have NOT! What I said was, the mainstream right wing shelters a SUBSET of fascists within their fold.
Actually, that's not what you said. Not initially anyways. I accept that you probably didn't express yourself as clearly as you wanted (something we're all guilty of here from time to time) but you very clearly implied that the US equivalent of the BNP is the Republican Party. I can see no other way to interpret this statement:
handofdave wrote: Coming from a country where the right wing Republicans comprise a MUCH larger portion of the population, have their own network (FOX NEWS), and routinely capture the machinery of government on all levels, I find the hullabaloo about the BNP just a little overstated.
You never explicitly said that the Republicans and the BNP were equivalent, but it is implicit in that statement. And that's all I was responding to.
There's a vital difference between people who are "right of centre moderates" and those who are far right fascists. Understanding that distinction is necessary if the white supremacists and ethnic nationalists are to be opposed and marginalised.
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handofdave
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Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 03:41
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Well, if you'd prefer to interpret me based on implicit rather than explicit statements, OK, I've begun to get used to it.
I do have a clearer understanding of what the BNP is after all this discussion, and looking at their official website, tho. And I do see that they are attempting to further a fascist agenda with a 'soft' approach, and I do 'get' the danger of allowing them to fortify their position by granting them airtime on public stations.
I'm going to clear out of this one for now, tho... I guess I don't have much to add at this point.
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grufty jim
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Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 15:11
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handofdave wrote: Well, if you'd prefer to interpret me based on implicit rather than explicit statements, OK, I've begun to get used to it.
Jeez. Everyone reads implications into everything.
When you say you think "the hullabaloo about the BNP is overstated" because of the strength of rightwing Republicans in the US and the reach of Fox News, then there's a clear implication. I've already accepted that it was just a case of loose wording and misinterpretation, but given that at least two others made the same misinterpretation, I suggest your defensiveness on this point is overwrought. Misunderstandings happen.
Aside from that, I think I've also said all I have to say on the BNP / Question Time thang. Wonder what controversial topic will strike U-Know! next...?
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Jim Tones
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Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 15:31
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grufty jim wrote: Wonder what controversial topic will strike U-Know! next...?
Next month's Address Drudion??
You never know!
;-)
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handofdave
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Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 16:31
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grufty jim wrote: I suggest your defensiveness on this point is overwrought.
No... THIS is overwrought:
YOU BASTARD! YOU UTTER BASTARD! HOW DARE YOU! SOB!
Just wanted to clear that up.
;-)
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Penske666
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Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 17:22
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I'd rather know who the idiots were rather than forcing them underground to spread their stupid idiology :)
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Popel Vooje
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Edited Oct 26, 2009, 17:42
Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 26, 2009, 17:42
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grufty jim wrote:
Aside from that, I think I've also said all I have to say on the BNP / Question Time thang. Wonder what controversial topic will strike U-Know! next...?
Should Rosemary West be allowed IVF?
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PMM
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Re: Make the BNP a criminal organization?
Oct 27, 2009, 01:58
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the right to arm bears.
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