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drop bombs, not acid....
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Re: drop bombs, not acid....
Oct 24, 2008, 01:39
handofdave wrote:
I've taken my share of flak for defending my position re: helping Obama kick the Republicans out. Some of that flak has come in the form of being called a sellout, basically, which sounds kinda belittling and condemning, ya know?

It might feel good to take an uncompromising revolutionary stance, but unless there's solid support for it, and a viable system to follow, it's just banter.

There is no brimming cusp of major revolution happening in the USA. It's a feeble murmer on the larger national stage. It cannot be counted on to deliver the goods.

I'm tired of endlessly fantasizing about dream governments. Look at many of the nations that did have revolutions.... China, Argentina... they're just as snared by the realities of money as anywhere else.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, yes, be idealistic, but leaven it with the understanding that there are some things that can actually be accomplished, and tho they don't live up to the stellar standards of our imaginations, they are REAL STEPS FORWARD. Baby steps, maybe, but steps. Stubborn refusals to engage in the larger body politic towards shared goals, how does that advance anything?

I find no glory in being a self-satisfied political dreamer that's always on the losing end of elections. To dismiss everyone but the most idealistic as being 'depressing' doesn't help matters either.


Well, to take your points in order...

I don't think you're a sell-out. But I do think you're wrong. I do understand your argument, but I don't accept it.

Secondly, I'm not taking an uncompromising revolutionary stance. And certainly I find this particular debate, in all its endless repititions anything but fun. It's pretty tiresome and frustrating.

Can you please show me where I've suggested that I want to abolish money? I have no recollection of calling for any such thing.

I'm well aware that there is no effective revolutionary movement in the US or elsewhere. I'm also familiar enough with history to know that no revolution will lead to utopia. You repeatedly tell me I'm a utopian. Again, please provide a link...

I don't believe the baby steps you prescribe are an adequate response to the problems facing the world. We just don't have time. Unfortunately, most people subscribe to your way of thinking, so nothing will get done. So we're probably fucked and hundreds of millions of people will starve to death. Sorry if you put thjat down to me being a self satisfied political dreamer. To be honest, I find such statements indicate that you really don't understand what I'm talking about. This isn't some stupid debating society game. Peak oil is here. Climate change is here. There's no point tinkering with the way things are. We need radical change, and there's no way we're going to get it.

And that's because most people think the way you do.

You and most people propose that the only solution is to continue to vote for centre right parties, to stop other centre right parties getting into power.

I must admit, that's really pretty depressing.
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