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Jane
Jane
3024 posts

Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 07, 2008, 18:53
Praise be!

http://www.secularism.org.uk/lordsapproveabolitionofblasphemy.html

"After an acrimonious debate in which the bogeyman of secularism was repeatedly invoked, the House of Lords on Wednesday March 5 2008 accepted the amendment to the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill that abolishes the common law of blasphemy and blasphemous libel."

Hoo-bloody-rah! Interestingly I've seen nothing in the mainstream news about it. Can we dare hope for more legislative moves towards secularism I wonder?
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 07, 2008, 21:01
Jane wrote:

Can we dare hope for more legislative moves towards secularism I wonder?


Hope so! I wouldn't mind being able to buy alcohol on a Sunday before church kicking out time - up here, and in that respect, 13th (?) century presbo laws rule.

Something tells me that in part this might have happened due to the furore over the silly Jerry Springer Jesus Christ shebang.

Didn't some overwrought Christian groups threaten and pester and petition etc?

Think the right pepole on the right places felt more than a bit irritated with their nonsense, and seems they've been told where to go.

Good move, yes.


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Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 08, 2008, 21:54
Can we dare hope for more legislative moves towards secularism I wonder?


I really hope so Jane. Maybe the next move should be a campaign to have faith schools abolished - something I've always believed lies at the heart of social division. The powers that be will squeal their heads off if anyone tries it though - it's all tied up with finance, 'faith' and prestige. Still, rather than taking on the whole creaking religious edifice, perhaps a single strong concerted pincer movement on just one vital aspect of it might be the way forward.

Pull away the foundation stones one-by-one and the rest should come tumbling down.
GangstaDuck
GangstaDuck
69 posts

Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 08, 2008, 23:55
Thank you very much for that link. I am at a loss as to why this was not given more coverage in the mainstream media.

A step in the right direction has gone down at last methinks.....now if only we can get a similar result on the drug laws.....
Jane
Jane
3024 posts

Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 09, 2008, 16:34
Littlestone wrote:
Maybe the next move should be a campaign to have faith schools abolished - something I've always believed lies at the heart of social division.

Yes! Completely. Having schools allowed to teach such bias is shocking. Imagine if there were politically affliated schools (you may argue that the public/private system does this, but that IS different) or schools which bent the minds of young people in other ways. 'Race' schools perhaps. Schools should teach facts, basic human universal morality and leave any 'faith' bias out of it.

No, I can't imagine a more divisive establishment than a 'faith' school. We should NOT be exposing our children's vulnerable young minds to this stuff.
handofdave
handofdave
3515 posts

Edited Mar 09, 2008, 17:14
Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 09, 2008, 17:10
Oh dear...

I'm feeling a little bit alarmed hearing this. I'm not religious myself, and there's plenty of religious thought/action that I find repulsive.

But the vein of this idea, that religious freedoms ought to be curtailed, is a straight road to a sort of secular empiricism.

As I've pointed out in the past, the abolishing of religion doesn't solve much. The Soviet Union and China tried it, and both cultures weren't made better for it.. they devolved into big brother states.

I suppose I ought to be defending your argument, as in the USA the religious aspects of culture are far more insidious than in the UK. But creating a secular culture that marginalizes religion by force makes me nervous. It reeks of substituting monotheism with monosecularism.

There's plenty of human beings on this planet and lots of room for different perspectives on the 'divine'. In a purely biological sense diversity is a good thing, and culturally it ought to follow that avoiding monolithic, top-down social belief systems, even secular ones, is better in the long run than trying to ram a single cultural meme down everyone's throat.

Sorry, Jane, I'm with you in some regards but ultimately I can't agree with the idea that the state has any business telling religious people that they are less equal. A slippery slope that can lead to the most vile forms of persecution, as was seen in the large Communist states, and is STILL seen in China (they jail and torture the Falong Gong to this day). Would western society sink to such methods? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not willing to find out.

Am I for the strict separation of Church and State? You bet.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 09, 2008, 17:58
Hi handofdave

I don't think anyone's saying religious freedoms ought to be curtailed, just that religions should not be allowed preferential treatment within our political or educational systems (which at present they are allowed). Religions are, after all, belief systems - no more no less - and while people have the right to believe whatever they want they do not have the right to impose those beliefs on others - whether minors or the general public.

I agree with you that abolishing religion doesn't achieve much - if anything (as in the communist states you cite) such a policy simply pushes the religion underground and probably nurtures it in so doing. If we believe in a free and democratic society then that society has to be founded on principles of enquiry, freedom of expression and equal respect for all aspects of human achievement and endevour (something, when one thinks about it, that has often been suppressed by religious and political institutions in the past).

In my humble opinion a truly free and democratic society can never come about if institutions (especially those with educational, political or social clout) start off from a single belief system - religious or otherwise.
handofdave
handofdave
3515 posts

Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 09, 2008, 18:28
Littlestone wrote:
I don't think anyone's saying religious freedoms ought to be curtailed, just that religions should not be allowed preferential treatment within our political or educational systems


I heartily concur.

But just as religion should not be allowed preferential treatment, organized clout that is hostile to religion ought not to be elevated either.

Messy as it is having all these conflicting systems co-existing, I think it's gravely dangerous to think that one way is everyone's way.

And in some cases religion is a force for positive secular change, as in the antislavery, civil rights, and antiwar movements. Christian thought gets drubbed on a regular basis here because of the more obtuse variants, but history is full of examples of believers who righted grievous wrongs with their religion as a central force.

I think there's too much patent anti-religiousness on these boards sometimes, from the drude's diatribes on Islam on down. I'm not defending religion. I'm defending diversity of thought and the idea that everyone be judged on their character. I've had friends of many persuasions, including some born-agains.

Nothing wrong with respectful disagreements, but there's a LOT wrong with the idea that ANYONE possesses the ultimate 'right' answer. Is this not why we all despise the fundamentalists? The militant secularists are no less guilty of attempts to instill their narrow views on the majority.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 09, 2008, 20:07
And in some cases religion is a force for positive secular change, as in the antislavery, civil rights, and antiwar movements.


This is very true, and I agree with you completely, but perhaps you'll also agree that religion has been (and continues to be) a frequent negative force in society - ie when it attempts to suppress alternative or new ways of thinking and behaving.

Perhaps the most important difference between the religious and the political belief systems is that the latter can be examined, debated and shown to work (or not to work) while the former places the notion of a divine being at its centre whose word should not be questioned (having said that though some political institutions have also placed the notion of a divine being at their centre ;-)

It is this emphasis on 'faith' that religions tend to rely on that worries me though, as that seems to run counter to individual freedom of thought and expression.
shanshee_allures
2563 posts

Edited Mar 09, 2008, 21:06
Re: Blasphemy law abolished
Mar 09, 2008, 20:34
I can see why people might feel disgruntled over state funding of faith schools. We speak more and more about the limited purse of the NHS and the tough decisions it has to make re cost effectiveness etc, but people can live without sending their children to that which supplements their own faith more than they can their cancer medicine, or their hip replacement etc. We speak all the time of priorities, so hmmmm...

BTW, there is something fundamentally unfair about determining for your children what 'religion' they are, or even that they have one. It should, at the very least, be a matter of 'choice', shouldn't it? But then again introduce 'choice' and the very nature of religion sort of crumbles, doesn't it?


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