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PMM 3155 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:16
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I oppose tyranny and injustice wherever it raises it's head. I don't belive Washington was motivated in anyway beyond cynical opportunism by the plight of the Iraqi people. It's glaringly obvious when you consider the approach taken towards human rights abuses by Israel, Phillipines, El Slavador, and a host of others. But here's the thing... This link is to a complete list of all US military campaigns from 1890 t othe present day... http://www.neravt.com/left/invade.htm What it shows is that the US military has been used time after time against Americans, to break strikes and civil rights movements. How do people armed with placards and megaphones compete against machine guns and bayonets? A guilty system recognises no innocents. Just let the majority vote, just once, for something other than capitalism, and you'll find that Democracy is just a sponge to soak up our desire for change.
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Quexalcote 228 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:19
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Which rebel group? What happens when one Iraqi faction uses US-provided weapons against another group within Iraq? Could any faction, on their own, come up with a democratic government, or even some beneficient authoritarian government? I have the sneaking suspicion that this would just be another opportunity for America to be blamed.
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:24
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Well I don't really have an answer. Remember this Iraq war was costly and it's already costing the US.
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Quexalcote 228 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:27
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I'm well aware of that list... The United States makes a huge number of errors, and its leaders are (I don't think) ever guided by any great degree of altruism, and yet somehow, the US allows for a huge degree of liberty for over a quarter of a billion people over a huge geographic expanse. I'm all for fighting the good fight against injustice myself, what I'm trying to figure out is why so many seem so upset that the US removed a tyrannical dictator in Iraq? My feeling is that that one goes in the good column, whether it's GW "getting the credit", or Bill Clinton (who I also disliked) or any of the other mediocre big business lackeys who've occupied that office since I've been alive.
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:28
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I think the problem is if most of the population see that the government is abusing it's authority they would try to stop it. But most Americans either don't care or fully support it. And anyways the government will always prevent the truth from being known to begin with.
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:30
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Maybe because I no longer see the US government as 'good guys'? I really lost my trust in this government and any kind of authority for that matter.
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Quexalcote 228 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:33
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The Constitution of the United States was written by wealthy white businessmen in large part because they wanted to be able to conduct business more easily between states, to collect taxes, and to put down insurrections by factions who had perfectly reasonable grievances. I don't think these motivations change the fact that it's an awe-inspiringly noble, utopian document. The American Civil War was fought primarily for the purpose of preserving the Union for economic and political reasons, not for the purpose of freeing black slaves. I don't think those motivations change the fact that it was a good cause.
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Quexalcote 228 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:42
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Well, try to be completely rational and ask yourself this: Who would you rather live under, GW or Hussein? I'm living under one of them, and I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY A LOT OF THINGS ARE!!! However, there is a reasonable hope of making those things better under Bush. There did not seem to be any reasonable hope at all for the Iraqi people under Hussein. they are not the same. not even close. this equivilancy game seems to me to be a horribly grotesque extension of the idea that every opinion is equally valid, that there aren't some things that are more right than others. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think that horribly flawed American democracy is infinitely preferable to choking dictatorship.
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Quexalcote 228 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:44
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I thought we were fighting this war because of greed? Aren't we actually profitting from it?
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Jun 28, 2004, 22:50
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Neither! Actually I think living in the USA is just as scary. Maybe not as upfront but just how the government controls the media! And how all the retards support Bush even after that torture in Iraq happened! And that the security people in this country support tyranny/injustice elsewhwere, how do I know it won't happen here? I find it disgusting that commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly openly support torture and injustice and people agree with them! I hate this kind of herd mentality in this country. I find it just as bad as Iraq!
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