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another american beheaded.
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duckbreath
254 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 30, 2004, 15:00
i think that is true
Quexalcote
228 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 30, 2004, 15:15
Hate to trot this tired old dog out, but hey, I'm a reactionary right-winger so what the fuck?

Do you really think most of Europe wouldn't be speaking German if not for the US?

Example one.

How about all of the folks who came here - voluntarily, can you imagine? - and found an infinitely better life than they would have had where they had been?

And incidentally, the vast majority of the natives here were dead thanks to the Spanish long before there was a USA.
Rhiannon
5290 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 30, 2004, 15:55
Lots of people that emigrated to America from Europe went because they had extreme religious views. And many of the first people to arrive got on very badly because they had no idea how to look after themselves in the new continent - lots of them starved or got nasty diseases, and the rest were only saved by the native people showing them what to eat and how to farm.

And as for the Spanish killing off the native North American peoples - maybe they did for some of the cultures of Middle and South America, but I do believe the push West for land was responsible for conveniently getting rid of the native people - that wasn't the Spanish. It was far far later than that.
Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 30, 2004, 16:17
You are really becoming boring! I think you said enough about your love of war and the Bush police state.
ron
ron
706 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 30, 2004, 16:43
u r a reactionary right-winger? so wot the fuck is that if u come into the bar i'm drinking in an start a fight with sum scrawny brown guy that doesn't act the way you think he should.... aaaaannd he commences to kicking your ass... don't expect me to leave my comfortable spot with the cute bartender to come save your dumb ass... just cuz we both happen to be americans...

deux you really think i would, like, care if most of europe and russia for that matter (u really need better maps in ur classroom teach...) spoke german? and for the pedants in the cheap seats... jes, i'm aware that inglisia is a derivative of high german... yada yada yada... andywayz... u say that like it would be a bad thing... i've been to germany and it's quite nice actually, i know a sweet nice girl from hamburg... and... there would be no isreal... so that would be one less thing to piss off the muslims... i mean, like i had this argument with michael in ealing... it's like, u-know, it's like a sunday afternoon and we're hanging on the beach w/ da babe's drinking mai-tai's and these japanese fucks start blowing the hell outta the place... well, it's not like we got into it to stop the germans... so exactly wot is ur point, or do u even have one, other than the top of ur head i mean, dexter...

given the circumstances under which "all of the folks who came here - voluntarily" u mean, like, the irish and the potato famine? i quite think that, should the bowels of hell have opened before them they would have gone volutarily... i love the chapelle show which has him in tradtional african dress/garb with two other black guys in an obviously african settingi, and he sez "hey it's a boat full of white people, let's go see what they want..." cracks me up everytime...

and incidentally, having lived on or near a reservation most of my life i'm well aware of the hardships which my people have sufferd at the hands of the conquestidors and later the blue eyes...
Tonight Matthew
44 posts

Re: another classic example
Jun 30, 2004, 18:31
Well we could have waited a little longer and got the support of the U.N.
It would also have been helpful if clear reasons were stated at the outset as to the reason's for an invation, If it was about getting rid of an evil dictator and the U.N was involved we may have been able to get the support of the Arab world, instead we have just succeeded in alienating half the world and killed lots of people and created the perfect conditions for a civil war that would make the Vietnam war look small by comparison
Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 30, 2004, 19:11
I'm sure that white-trash/yuppie Quex's trailer park arleady smeels like piss and cheap beer. Definitely goes w/ his Bob Seger soundtrack. (Heh-heh...)
Lawrence
9547 posts

Re: another american beheaded.
Jun 30, 2004, 19:13
I'm sure Quex has such a comfortable life and that's exactly why he spouts his BS. Doesn't seem to know how to step in someone else's shoes....
Lawrence
9547 posts

I just realised something...
Jul 01, 2004, 02:03
OK, maybe I've turned others off due to my behavior today... Maybe I should not have gotten into this fight here. But something I just realised here.

I think the real problem w/ Quex is that he obviously has an agenda based on fear. I noticed this guy calls himself a 'secular humanist' who supports the Iraq war because he obviously fears Islamic fundamentalism (understandable) but seems to think that the war serves to enforce his own secular agenda.

That is why he reacted to Death In June probably. He fears anything that looks nazi on the surface for the same reason he fears Islamic fundamentalism. But ya know something? As much as he claims to be against Bush his agenda is no different except his agenda is secular. I think he makes the mistake of agressively forcing change on others with malignant beliefs, or whatever beliefs he thinks are dangerous. So he agrees w/ this war that costs alot of innocent lives and has involved torture because he thinks it will force Iraqis to follow his secular model. The same way the US tried to enforce it's capitalist agenda on nations such as Chile. No different from how Pinochet feared Communism and thus enforced his fascist model on his citizens through brutality.

Frankly the whole of 'secular humanism' disgusts me as it is no different from Christianity itself. And Quex doth not sound different from those evangelical x-tian fundies. It comes right down to pushing an agenda on other people. Of course I'm a pagan and have no interest in converting anyone in any way -- surely not through brutality.

I ain't a fascist, but Quex sure sounds more fascist than me. (Does anyone really think I have anything against Jews BTW?) He probably makes the same mistake as the ARA in thinking attacking people at DIJ gigs will stop fascism, when just communicating that racism/anti-Semetism is wrong would be more effective.

Funny that he hated my analogy to Hitler -- I wasn't saying that Bush=Hitler, just that his followers seem to be the blind 'Good Germans' that followed Hitler, except apparently more ignorant.

Frankly I realised I made the mistake of responding to Quex -- I'm pretty sure he's got more attacks cooked up. But that doesn't matter as I now see right through him.
Quexalcote
228 posts

Confession Time...
Jul 01, 2004, 05:12
Actually Lawrence, you're not far off in thinking that there is something amiss in my rantings here... you're coming at it from the wrong angle however. It actually started off as kind of a joke, then I was trying to press people's buttons and I've realized it's gotten out of hand, so...

It all started with me making the ridiculous remark that the removal of Hussein in and of itself was a positive result of this war... of course, the very idea that this latest murderous rampage of the U$A has brought about anything good is beyond laughable. Saddam is gone, sure, but Bush is at least as bad and probably worse. Iraq is now in danger of becoming a cesspool of wrongful imprisonment, torture, and political repression. And they will never be rid of the stench of American imperialism - just look at Japan and Germany for proof of that. Clearly, the atrocities visited on the Iraqi people by the U.S. are immeasurably worse than they've ever endured. And the worst is undoubtedly yet to come.

What's sickening is that this IS all over oil. If America was at all sincere about freeing the Iraqi people, obviously oil would have to be taken out of the equation. Since there is oil there, and since Americans are going to make all the money from it, America's actions were inexcusable, even if one could buy the line that Iraq might be a bit closer to a free society without Hussein. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the ONLY possible reason for the Bush administration to have plans to attack Iraq even before 9/11 was to steal their oil. Decent countries only take action out of altruism, not to advance their own interests. History speaks for itself on this.

Besides which, the U.S. at one time supported Saddam, and one doesn't have to know anything about the intricacies of foreign policy, let alone what goes on in a region as culturally, religiously, and politically stable and homogenous as the Middle East to know the simple fact that decent countries don't ever deal with awful people. And if they do, they certainly aren't allowed to change their position.

What really baffles me is why the left isn't taken more seriously in the U.S. We have incredibly thoughtful, broad-minded analysts like Michael Moore and Howard Zinn who present truly fair and balanced commentaries and are bursting at the seems with practical solutions to the problems of terrorism. Which is certainly not to say that I agree that there's as much a problem in the world with terrorism as there is with American cultural hegemony and warlust-driven imperialism. Hussein after all was the leader of a sovereign nation, not a terrorist, and didn't even have any weapons of mass destruction. The US hasn't found any, and they would be impossible to hide for such an extremely long time. Any suggestion that he would even have a passing interest in acquiring a nuclear weapon is obviously U.S. propaganda of the lowest sort. In short, Saddam was no danger to anyone, and the US, typically, was the unprovoked aggressor.The fact that the US went ahead w/o UN approval is quite obviously a war crime. Who cares if it took months, years or a decade to get results? At least innocent people wouldn't have been killed!

I have to say, in the midst of my charade, the thing that had me rolling on the floor was typing that bit about the US promoting liberty...that's got to be the biggest joke I can imagine. America is practically a prison, as those of us unfortunate enough to live here know all too well. Any honest assessment of America's net contribution to the causes of liberty, justice, and equality would quite obviously have to be expressed in the negative.

Our only hope as I see it is in brave folks like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky, along with regular citizens like Lawrence and Rob who aren't afraid to truly think for themselves and voice thoughtful, constructive dissent.
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