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Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 04, 2017, 12:13
thesweetcheat wrote:
You've said what I was going to.

No disputing what Smithone has said, but the tone as a first time poster here isn't exactly one that's going to engage anyone positively.

The real damage to our heritage is happening across the country, on farms, hills and moors, by farmers and flytippers, while the heritage bodies navel gaze and while a thousand more instantly refutable papers get written about Stonehenge.

And in the meantime the oh-so-precious World Heritage site suffers the indignity of a hugely destructive tunnel (never mind a bootprint on a Mesolithic layer) to which much of the caring archaeo community says nothing and looks the other way for fear of rocking the funding gravy boat.

I also think maybe there would be a lot more interest and understanding from the wider public if the archaeo community tried to engage rather than preach or condescend to people who are on the same side (in theory). Most of the sites we visit haven't seen an archaeologist in decades - too busy getting grants to write more pet theories about Stonehenge.


Spot on as well.

There would also be a lot more known about other areas of the county than there is now if money was thrown at it like it is at SH. Stonehenge is special of course, but how special would some other places be if treated in the same way. SH is not the centre of the universe and the only playground available for favoured archaeologists to come up with alternative theories year by year!
I think all the differing opinions, thoughts and ideas are becoming embarrassing
GLADMAN
949 posts

Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 04, 2017, 12:56
Sanctuary wrote:

There would also be a lot more known about other areas of the county than there is now if money was thrown at it like it is at SH. Stonehenge is special of course, but how special would some other places be if treated in the same way. SH is not the centre of the universe and the only playground available for favoured archaeologists to come up with alternative theories year by year!
I think all the differing opinions, thoughts and ideas are becoming embarrassing


Well, attempting to understand cultures by devoting most of your energy to monuments marking their apogee - at the expense of the innumerable sites servicing the needs of the grass roots communities - seems to me like attempting to understanding Christianity in the UK by studying Canterbury Cathedral and ignoring what went on in village churches. Sure, the flagship monuments might well have represented what that culture's leaders thought people ought to be doing... but did they represent what people were actually doing in their own communities. To my mind the reality of the latter is much more important.
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 05, 2017, 17:58
costaexpress wrote:
Thank you for the link, however, I have walked extensively around these sites over recent years, what I am doing on my next trip is putting some of the more recent revelations from around the river sites into context with the greater Stonehenge environment hence my interest in Blick Mead and Bluestone henge


Oops! Sorry, how easy it is to make assumptions about each other when we don't really know who we are talking to. A few years back, probably before Blick Mead started receiving the attention it now does, a knowledgeable friend (whom I've since lost touch with) took me down to the River Avon and showed me where the 'avenue' started, also the site of Bluestone henge. We couldn't follow the Avenue completely back to Stonehenge but what we could follow we did. It was an 'outing' I've never forgotten.
costaexpress
77 posts

Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 05, 2017, 21:04
Its absolutely no problem, we all only communicate with postings here and there and I did not want my response to sound as haughty as it did. I was a little mischievous with my comments about Blick Mead for the same reason others have posted. No one seems to want to know me when I am camped up on Iron Hill South, the minute I mention Stonehenge I am supposed to stand behind the tape and clap when when they produce a shard of flint (There I've tipped over again already!). Anyway I like to keep reasonably up to date with Stonehenge if for no other reason, like it or not, it is the window to most of my friends and family to the hobby/interest that consumes so much of my time.
carol27
747 posts

Edited Nov 13, 2017, 20:58
Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 13, 2017, 20:53
I love watching programmes about Stonehenge; i particularly am fascinated by the cursus (next adventuring hopefully cursuses). It's amazing, fantastic. I aimed to visit once; pulled up in the car park; saw the coaches; saw the prices;saw the shop;saw the queues;saw the lack of access; worshipped from afar & drove on down the road...to Avebury & from then on in to some of the most beautiful places. Whole complexes on Bodmin moor, Dartmoor, Aberdeenshire / Scotland, Cornwall, Yorkshire, Wales & being a novice & ignorant, presumably all over the place. Orkney & Stonehenge, deservedly revered but no where near as special to me as say, Sunkenkirk. I think about Long Meg..one of the largest stone circles & Little Meg ...oh I don't know all alone out there. The recently visited Stannon & Fernacre circles; the hut circles, the stone rows..patently a whole bunch of fascinating archeology in one wonderful area. I know resources are seriously limited; i know the "big" sites have the equivalent of celebrity status & possibly had that when they where "operating". I can't touch Stonehenge; i can't feel it; i can't sit quietly & muse; that doesn't make it & it's surroundings unimportant, just not that vital to me.
I do get easily riled by what I perceive to be pomposity & exclusivity & am often wrong. Gladman, Sweetcheat & Costa, TJJ et al have the advantage of eloquence, I just get mad! TSC is right, if the archeo community cannot engage even lay people like me who have a passionate love, & absolute reverence for these places, then what hope do we have in engaging the wider public to protect & serve. I have a hard job trying to engage anyone in my immediate vicinity on a day to day basis with my fascination..in fact, they think I'm a bit weird! You know, dancing around naked at midnight etc etc. They don't give a shit. I plug away.
Archaeology coming across, as it sometimes does, as some exclusive little club is not helpful. It's not funded well from lack of general interest. Our places & history on this level are not generally taught to children...anyway, I mean I could go on! No one died!
Sadly I suspect that my footprints have trodden over many mesolithic layers, sorry.
Obviously not in reply to Gladman, just a general rant. Happy days:)
VBB
558 posts

Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 14, 2017, 07:25
I stopped visiting tma years back, I only do now because someone sent me a mail with Silbury and Blick Mead in the same sentence. Even then I wouldn’t have been tempted to post. What changed my mind is two things. Firstly, I paused to read your field notes and those by others above, which has also drastically altered the manner in which I might have responded. Please keep this up, from where I sit your contributions are highly encouraging and (selfishly) gave me much to think about. Secondly, I think it would be helpful to respond to your impression of the Blick Mead project which couldn’t be further from the experience. I have been volunteering at Blick Mead for 7 years and got involved precisely because the project started and remains very much on the rebel side of the divide. There is only one academic and he is under siege (quite often from me), a few other departments and unis and individuals prop this up on a mates basis, the rest are non-archaeologists and a handful of students. I shall fly a Jolly Roger at the next dig, if it happens. The project only gets a limited time to access the site and no budget, so it all hinges on cooperation and donations. I shan't post for many years now I trust - take care all. Sorry if rambling, 3 hours sleep... VBB
carol27
747 posts

Edited Nov 14, 2017, 16:36
Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 14, 2017, 16:35
VBB wrote:
I stopped visiting tma years back, I only do now because someone sent me a mail with Silbury and Blick Mead in the same sentence. Even then I wouldn’t have been tempted to post. What changed my mind is two things. Firstly, I paused to read your field notes and those by others above, which has also drastically altered the manner in which I might have responded. Please keep this up, from where I sit your contributions are highly encouraging and (selfishly) gave me much to think about. Secondly, I think it would be helpful to respond to your impression of the Blick Mead project which couldn’t be further from the experience. I have been volunteering at Blick Mead for 7 years and got involved precisely because the project started and remains very much on the rebel side of the divide. There is only one academic and he is under siege (quite often from me), a few other departments and unis and individuals prop this up on a mates basis, the rest are non-archaeologists and a handful of students. I shall fly a Jolly Roger at the next dig, if it happens. The project only gets a limited time to access the site and no budget, so it all hinges on cooperation and donations. I shan't post for many years now I trust - take care all. Sorry if rambling, 3 hours sleep... VBB


Whoa, a human being. Well done sir/madam! Sincere!y.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 14, 2017, 17:03
I have to say I didn't find Smithone any less of a human being but whether that's so or not I hope all of us get behind Blickmead because (a.) there has been some damage there and (b.) it's pivotal, and the original essence of Stonehenge and (c.) the real villains, Highways England and its supporters are trying to downplay its importance so they can go ahead with David Effing Cameron's now-irrelevant vote-catching plan in the teeth of UNESCO's opposition.

BTW VBB used to be here but left years ago. He does know quite a lot despite being too modest to admit that VBB stands for Venerable Botty Burp, i.e. old fart!
carol27
747 posts

Edited Nov 14, 2017, 17:46
Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 14, 2017, 17:22
nigelswift wrote:
I have to say I didn't find Smithone any less of a human being but whether that's so or not I hope all of us get behind Blickmead because (a.) there has been some damage there and (b.) it's pivotal, and the original essence of Stonehenge and (c.) the real villains, Highways England and its supporters are trying to downplay its importance so they can go ahead with David Effing Cameron's now-irrelevant vote-catching plan in the teeth of UNESCO's opposition.

BTW VBB used to be here but left years ago. He does know quite a lot despite being too modest to admit that VBB stands for Venerable Botty Burp, i.e. old fart!

Yes, thankyou. "Human being" was tongue in cheek, as I'm sure you know ( undoubtedly clumsy on my part. Smithone is undoubtedly a passionate er,ahem antiquarian with major knowledge & a human being, as such),.(a) damage is occuring all over the country. ( b) all sorts of places presumably " pivotal" just, personally not so obsessed with Stonehenge, my failing I'm sure. (c) no arguments there in regards to its relationship with Stonehenge.
VBB seems like a splendid chap & I truly admire his devotion & hard work. Genuinely, it's to be supported.
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Edited Nov 14, 2017, 20:20
Re: Stonehenge & Environs
Nov 14, 2017, 18:30
carol27 wrote:
nigelswift wrote:
I have to say I didn't find Smithone any less of a human being but whether that's so or not I hope all of us get behind Blickmead because (a.) there has been some damage there and (b.) it's pivotal, and the original essence of Stonehenge and (c.) the real villains, Highways England and its supporters are trying to downplay its importance so they can go ahead with David Effing Cameron's now-irrelevant vote-catching plan in the teeth of UNESCO's opposition.

BTW VBB used to be here but left years ago. He does know quite a lot despite being too modest to admit that VBB stands for Venerable Botty Burp, i.e. old fart!

Yes, thankyou. "Human being" was tongue in cheek, as I'm sure you know ( undoubtedly clumsy on my part. Smithone is undoubtedly a passionate er,ahem antiquarian with major knowledge & a human being, as such),.(a) damage is occuring all over the country. ( b) all sorts of places presumably " pivotal" just, personally not so obsessed with Stonehenge, my failing I'm sure. (c) no arguments there in regards to its relationship with Stonehenge.
VBB seems like a splendid chap & I truly admire his devotion & hard work. Genuinely, it's to be supported.



Pleasantly surprised to see VBB here this morning - as Nigel said, one of the many knowledgeable people who used to post here in the past. I have been lucky enough to meet him out at Avebury once or twice - he is the complete opposite to pompous.

Edited: for brevity.
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