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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Uffington White Horse » uffington horse and the sun |
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Rhiannon 5290 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 12:23
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I know we've probably argued this enough now, but I just want to say... In Josh Pollard's Antiquity paper, he says "When observed from Dragon Hill at midwinter, a distinctive effect is created, whereby the sun rises immediately behind the horse and appears to roll just above its body, staying low to the horizon due to the truncation of the lower part of its arc by the high rise of the immediate topography." But when you look at his very own diagram and photo of this, the midwinter sun isn't rising behind the horse at all. Considering this is essentially the only hard evidence brought out to support a firm connection to all the scandinavian sun horse stuff in the rest of the paper, it's not a very firm footing. My name has magic horse story connections. But seemingly no sun connections. And that mythology's from this country, not scandinavia. So perhaps I should develop my own theory about the horse. Would it be any less valid? I could still include stuff about running horses and dragon hill. In fact, isn't the Uffington horse said to be 'beaky'? Rhiannon had links with magic birds too. Perhaps the horse is a cross between a magic horse and a magic bird. Hah I'm liking this, I think my theory's got legs. Just needs a bit of tidying up.
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 12:45
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I did have a thought late last night that by 'behind' the horse, he meant to the left of its tail rather than how I took it to be (rising behind its back). But even if he did mean that, it doesn't really demonstrate much in terms of meaning or intention does it? And aye, i've never thought it's head resembled a horse! How could it? The whole thing looks more like a map to me. But that could be wishful thinking.
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 12:58
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I think i'm going to go up there on a sunny day near to the solstice, if we get such a thing. Take some photos. Anybody else fancy it? The more the merrier. Biscuits mandatory.
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thesweetcheat 6209 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 13:16
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Yes, we should do that. I still think much of the paper is flawed as I said last night, and there's absolutely no evidence to support the theory that links the horse to the sun. But I am going to dig my (spurred) heels in over the fact that the horse faces to the right, and the sunset is further to the right of that, so the horse is facing towards the sunset. This doesn't prove intention or even a link with the sun, but is a factual aspect of the design and was what I assume tjj would have seen from the train line as sunset approached. I think we ought to be standing quite a long way back though, a few miles away, down on the vale. Standing up on Dragon Hill isn't going to be rewarding, the sun will be doing its thing behind the hillside - Dragon Hill is quite low down. Cadbury's should make Uffington horse biscuits, with corrugated chocolate on one side and a nice biscuity rendering of the horse on the other.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 13:25
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Rhiannon wrote: I know we've probably argued this enough now, but I just want to say... In Josh Pollard's Antiquity paper, he says "When observed from Dragon Hill at midwinter, a distinctive effect is created, whereby the sun rises immediately behind the horse and appears to roll just above its body, staying low to the horizon due to the truncation of the lower part of its arc by the high rise of the immediate topography." But when you look at his very own diagram and photo of this, the midwinter sun isn't rising behind the horse at all. The real problems are the contortions attempting to make the reader believe the horse is oriented east to west . I thought that the above comment was one of lesser errors . It's not a sun roll i.e. the sun is not rolling up or down the contour the hill ,it is simply rising above a fairly level hill top .The reason that the sun appears low is not due to any particular rise in the topography it's because it's one of the characteristics of the midwinter sun , it simply doesn't get very high in midwinter , there is no "high rise in the immediate topography ".
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Edited Aug 18, 2017, 13:30
Aug 18, 2017, 13:27
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But tjj said she was travelling in July. The setting sun would have been in (broadly ;)) the NW. That could not possibly work Alken. When you say 'facing the sunset', do you mean the body of the horse facing the sunset or the head pointing toward the sunset? If we're going with the 'galloping' thing, you surely mean the head 'toward' the sunset, which as the sun was in the NW is absolutely wrong in every possible way.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 13:32
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thesweetcheat wrote: But I am going to dig my (spurred) heels in over the fact that the horse faces to the right, and the sunset is further to the right of that, so the horse is facing towards the sunset. But the horse is not facing towards the sunset , it is facing to a part of the horizon where the sun is never seen to set from the perspective of the horse . If you want to see the sun set somewhere you just adjust your viewing position ,but we are talking about viewing from the perspective of the orientation of the horse . Ignoring that all important perspective is having your jaffa and digestive and eating both packets .
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 13:35
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TSC, I will be going to Dragon Hill for sunrise. I doubt i'll stay around later that day to look at the horse not pointing at the sunset.
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 13:40
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tiompan wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: But I am going to dig my (spurred) heels in over the fact that the horse faces to the right, and the sunset is further to the right of that, so the horse is facing towards the sunset. But the horse is not facing towards the sunset , it is facing to a part of the horizon where the sun is never seen to set from the perspective of the horse . If you want to see the sun set somewhere you just adjust your viewing position ,but we are talking about viewing from the perspective of the orientation of the horse . Ignoring that all important perspective is having your jaffa and digestive and eating both packets . Quite! You can stand somewhere up on the hill and watch the sunset over Mr Beaky the IA map. If you so please. There would be plenty of spots for that!
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 13:42
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: But tjj said she was travelling in July. The setting sun would have been in (broadly ;)) the NW. Exactly , and it was not from the perspective of the orientation of the horse . You can watch the midwinter sun set over ,( pick) a famous standing stone , or hill top etc , as long as you are free to choose the observing point .That is not the case here ,we are constrained by the orientation of the horse which is not looking towards any sunset at any time ,it is actually avoiding them . That is the one aspect of this nonsense that is funny .
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