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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Marbles |
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Mar 14, 2017, 11:39
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On the day the (bloody) Brexit Bill clears its last hurdle the Greeks suggest returning the Parthenon marbles as a symbolic act against sinister forces seeking the 'dissolution of Europe'. I agree with them. We should. An ideal moment. ;)
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Mar 14, 2017, 16:45
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We know what country they belong to. We know exactly where they came from. If we return them to Greece then UK taxpayers don't need to pay display costs, upkeep, maintenance and staffing costs. Plus we wouldn't have the International Cringe Factor of still justifying keeping them. Like some rich German with some former Jewish-Owned Paintings looted from the Warsaw Ghetto. It is just embarassing and makes some of us feel bad when we bump into Greek friends and they ask... Also if we keep up this pantomime any longer, the Greek people could probably just take the UK to The International Court and have them forcibly retrieved and returned by some EU Antiquities Theft Enforcement Police. I went to see them about thirty years ago and they are a bit knocked about. Like they have been through the wars.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Mar 14, 2017, 17:08
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nigelswift wrote: On the day the (bloody) Brexit Bill clears its last hurdle the Greeks suggest returning the Parthenon marbles as a symbolic act against sinister forces seeking the 'dissolution of Europe'. I agree with them. We should. An ideal moment. ;) I haven't come across that news story yet - perhaps the Beeb is playing it down in the face of so much existing dissent in the country. I don't agree with the above 'reason' for returning them when this has been an ongoing dispute for years. Citing 'sinister forces seeking the dissolution of Europe' seems to be opportunism. Its all so depressing and not something I personally can get worked up about either way. Anyway, here is a position statement from the Trustees of the British Museum along with a list of 'common misconceptions'. It doesn't sound as though they would be willing to relinquish them any time soon. http://www.britishmuseum.org/about_us/news_and_press/statements/parthenon_sculptures/trustees_statement.aspx
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Mar 14, 2017, 17:18
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/elgin-marbles-greece-calls-for-return-to-help-fight-fascism-parthenon-sculptures-a7626781.html
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tjj 3606 posts |
Mar 14, 2017, 17:30
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nigelswift wrote: Thanks Nigel, it was helpful to read the full news story in context. I certainly wouldn't oppose the return of the Parthenon Marbles to Greece but does anyone really think this 'gesture' would strike a blow against the Golden Dawn party.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Mar 14, 2017, 17:46
Mar 14, 2017, 17:45
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It might strike a blow against Farage and May which has to be good. Seriously, a gift to the cradle of democracy from a country that has taken to governing itself through non-binding referenda has a satisfying pythonesque feel to it.
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thesweetcheat 6210 posts |
Mar 14, 2017, 19:36
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nigelswift wrote: Seriously, a gift to the cradle of democracy from a country that has taken to governing itself through non-binding referenda has a satisfying pythonesque feel to it. Not to mention the country that gave us the term Pyhrric Victory.
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Mar 15, 2017, 23:34
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nigelswift wrote: On the day the (bloody) Brexit Bill clears its last hurdle the Greeks suggest returning the Parthenon marbles as a symbolic act against sinister forces seeking the 'dissolution of Europe'. I agree with them. We should. An ideal moment. ;) Interesting dilemma though... My understanding - perhaps erroneous - is that past Greek governments didn't give a monkey's about the Pathenon, which was allowed to fall into complete decay, even used as a fort during the Turkish occupation. By all accounts Lord Elgin wasn't a man you'd wish to have a drink with... you'd end up paying... selling the marbles, crudely hacked from the superstructure by labourers, to the British Museum upon bankruptcy. Typical, worthless British aristocracy. However the point is the Greek authorities didn't give a damn until the issue became political. That frightening spectre of Nationalism currently employed by Sturgeon when times are hard - people are far more receptive to politicians telling them they are hard done by... which suddenly makes history so important. Someone else is to blame, not you. The marbles can not be returned to the Pathenon, so I assume they would be housed within the (relatively) new museum the Greeks 'somehow' found the money to build while countless billions in debt? Whereas the Egyptians are more than happy to send Tutankhamun's stuff on apparently endless world tours? Perhaps that is the crux of the issue. Not where the artefacts are, but a tacit recognition of who 'owns' them? The marbles were created to adorn a temple dedicated to Athena... investigate that if you will, but it is not healthy. The new husband of the woman I bought my car from decides that 'times have changed,' and I must give it back? Personally I would sell the marbles back to the Grecian government. They do not need to be in the British Museum... in my opinion. I think our own history/prehistory is more than enough. An isolated Britain took an primary lead in saving Greece from Nazi enslavement. Didn't that pay off the debts of a moron British aristocrat? Let's talk sensibly about this, perhaps?
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spencer 3070 posts |
Mar 18, 2017, 03:18
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Given the pollution damage to in situ antiquaria in Athens perhaps the BM may not have been a bad home..Sooner or later, home or abroad, in doubtless many instances,someone may have to 'make the call' re copies. Nothing r e a l l y lasts..
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tomatoman 118 posts |
Mar 18, 2017, 08:52
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Nice debate, folks. I have seen them and they ARE "knocked about a bit"! Completely agree that to return them to Greece now would embarrass the Greek nation financially........but that's their problem, not an adequate defence for our retention. The issue for me is the BM's core policy on all this. I can think of many examples of artifacts there which many Brits think of as stolen.........think of Sutton Hoo, Lewis Chessmen and many examples of hoards found all over the British Isles. The BM will ALWAYS have a case for retention, but where do they REALLY belong? If a "new broom" policy were introduced, the claims for rehabilitation from all over the World would be endless.
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