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Politics and cairns 55 - 45
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moss
moss
2897 posts

Edited Feb 22, 2017, 09:01
Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 22, 2017, 07:50
A very long read about politics, modern cairns, and borders. I find it a great pity that the vote remain/leave has caused so much controversy, and for that reason people should step back from the great quagmire which is called nationalism.
In putting this on TMA and not U-know I hope people will not become too heated in their thoughts.


https://theurbanprehistorian.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/55-45/

He is a great writer, and his 'Selfish Walks' also deserves to be read....

Edit; must also remember to wake up in the morning, and check that i don't put the thread under the wrong subject!!
spencer
spencer
3065 posts

Re: Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 22, 2017, 10:12
Thank you, Thelma .... now THAT is lucid and heartfelt writing that deserves to be read by people of whatever stripe, political or archaeological. For the record, I loathe the party that Rory Stewart represents, but, as far as his personal calibre is concerned, my opinion there is another matter entirely. I shall read more of this blog. Cheers.
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Edited Feb 22, 2017, 11:00
Re: Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 22, 2017, 10:53
An interesting read Moss, if a bit rambling (am recovering from the lurgy at present, so have more time to read). To me it seems the cairn was constructed with the best of intentions but the borderlands have been contentious for centuries. I have good friend who after coming into an inheritance has recently bought a clay-walled longhouse near Carlisle. She did this to reconnect with her parents extended family who come from the 'debatable lands'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debatable_Lands
I noticed when we met up recently (she still has a home nearby) she seemed a bit fiercer than previously.
As Jo Cox's husband said on the news this morning - Jo would have wanted us as a country to look at the things that unite us, not divide us. I think our ancient heritage, whether it be on Orkney or in Cornwall is one of the things that unites us. And should Scotland ever break free of the UK politically we will still be the British Isles. No-one can change that.
drewbhoy
drewbhoy
2550 posts

Re: Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 22, 2017, 11:02
moss wrote:
A very long read about politics, modern cairns, and borders. I find it a great pity that the vote remain/leave has caused so much controversy, and for that reason people should step back from the great quagmire which is called nationalism.
In putting this on TMA and not U-know I hope people will not become too heated in their thoughts.


https://theurbanprehistorian.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/55-45/

He is a great writer, and his 'Selfish Walks' also deserves to be read....

Edit; must also remember to wake up in the morning, and check that i don't put the thread under the wrong subject!!


I've no idea who the nationalists in Scotland are. The SNP and SGP are parties of independence so wouldn't be included there. Apart from that quite a good article. As for his politics he can gtf.
tomatoman
118 posts

Re: Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 22, 2017, 14:06
As an person of English descent living in Galloway for the last 8 years, I did actually get involved at the time because, at a time when even in the Borders the Nationalistic fever was getting a bit silly, I felt Rory Stewart had captured the mood very well. I was happy to identify with it. Whether I agree with Neil Oliver all the time, or not, did NOT detract from the 3-part programme he was associated with. (If you squinted a little, you might have seen the squeemishness that maybe ALL the participants felt for some of the potential inferences of whoever put the thing together.)
BUT.........the sensitivities of many Nationalists on all sides leaves a lot to be desired for me.
spencer
spencer
3065 posts

Politics and cairns 55-45
Feb 23, 2017, 16:51
Yup. The problem with archaeo and other telly is the person at the top who 'steers' things. That's what did for Time Team in the end. Well put. Mark Horton and Liz Bonnin be with you, my child
Rhiannon
5290 posts

Re: Politics and cairns 55-45
Feb 23, 2017, 18:32
Ah Mark Horton. The man who quite literally said to my friend "Don't you know who I am?" when they didn't attend to him in the way he thought he merited.
Howburn Digger
Howburn Digger
986 posts

Re: Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 23, 2017, 19:57
tjj wrote:

As Jo Cox's husband said on the news this morning - Jo would have wanted us as a country to look at the things that unite us, not divide us. I think our ancient heritage, whether it be on Orkney or in Cornwall is one of the things that unites us. And should Scotland ever break free of the UK politically we will still be the British Isles. No-one can change that.


And the late Willie McRae would have wanted us in Scotlandd to vote for Independence and not listen to the lies than bind us to the shabby "Union". 32 years on from Willie McRae's death it is more relevant than ever, especially when British Army boots hit the ground in Syria and Parliament was not recalled. That does not unite us. It is the behaviour of Westminster which divides us and has always divided us. No amount of whimsy about a Clava Cairn is ever gonna fix the splashback from that crock of brown stuff.

I didn't know husband's of former "No Campaign" MP's were sources of wisdom on "Unity and Division" or even on referendums which neither that husband or wife had a vote in, let alone a say in. There are many, many things which divide us in Scotland from those in other countries which are part of the Union. To begin with "we" - whatever that means in the quote above - are not "a country". The inhabitants of the three countries (England, Wales and Scotland) and the six counties of Northern Ireland are equal participants in a Union. The Union was a political and economic maneouvre over three hundred years ago which many feel has run its course in these more enlightened times. "Our" (whatever that means) "ancient heritage" does not unite us. It consists of mostly forgotten stumps of stone, panels of RA or collapsed tombs with no money for consolidation or preservation. It is pathetic to try and imbue such unique and individual monuments with some unifying political 21st Century Liberal agenda. Yuk!
The last two sentences in the quote above show where some of the problem lies. Weird dramatic language ("break free"!) and skewed perceptions of the status of the equal partners in the Union. When Scotland decides to let the "lame duck" (a Thatcher term) of England face the future on its own two feet (maybe leaning on its wee pal Wales and some Ulstermen) then maybe the inhabitants of Scotland, Ireland, Wales and even England will all feel more unified and equal.
Scotland doesn't need to "break free"(if "ever" it "should")... Scotland just needs to vote for Independence and end the charade, or get on with the status quo. It is an issue for Scotland as a whole nation. England doesn't have a say - however much it wants the last word.
Howburn Digger
Howburn Digger
986 posts

Re: Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 23, 2017, 19:57
tjj wrote:

As Jo Cox's husband said on the news this morning - Jo would have wanted us as a country to look at the things that unite us, not divide us. I think our ancient heritage, whether it be on Orkney or in Cornwall is one of the things that unites us. And should Scotland ever break free of the UK politically we will still be the British Isles. No-one can change that.


And the late Willie McRae would have wanted us in Scotland to vote for Independence and not listen to the lies than bind us to the shabby "Union". 32 years on from Willie McRae's death it is more relevant than ever, especially when British Army boots hit the ground in Syria and Parliament was not recalled. That does not unite us. It is the behaviour of Westminster which divides us and has always divided us. No amount of whimsy about a Clava Cairn is ever gonna fix the splashback from that crock of brown stuff.

I didn't know husband's of former "No Campaign" MP's were sources of wisdom on "Unity and Division" or even on referendums which neither that husband or wife had a vote in, let alone a say in. There are many, many things which divide us in Scotland from those in other countries which are part of the Union. To begin with "we" - whatever that means in the quote above - are not "a country". The inhabitants of the three countries (England, Wales and Scotland) and the six counties of Northern Ireland are equal participants in a Union. The Union was a political and economic maneouvre over three hundred years ago which many feel has run its course in these more enlightened times. "Our" (whatever that means) "ancient heritage" does not unite us. It consists of mostly forgotten stumps of stone, panels of RA or collapsed tombs with no money for consolidation or preservation. It is pathetic to try and imbue such unique and individual monuments with some unifying political 21st Century Liberal agenda. Yuk!
The last two sentences in the quote above show where some of the problem lies. Weird dramatic language ("break free"!) and skewed perceptions of the status of the equal partners in the Union. When Scotland decides to let the "lame duck" (a Thatcher term) of England face the future on its own two feet (maybe leaning on its wee pal Wales and some Ulstermen) then maybe the inhabitants of Scotland, Ireland, Wales and even England will all feel more unified and equal.
Scotland doesn't need to "break free"(if "ever" it "should")... Scotland just needs to vote for Independence and end the charade, or get on with the status quo. It is an issue for Scotland as a whole nation. England doesn't have a say - however much it wants the last word.
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Edited Feb 25, 2017, 00:14
Re: Politics and cairns 55 - 45
Feb 23, 2017, 20:30
Deleted by tjj
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