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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » How is Rock Art aged? |
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 19, 2012, 23:50
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tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Granite would take longer but it is not used too often .It does tend have lots of natural cup like holes that could help as a start i.e. they that just get enhanced . Although granite on granite would work with nothing to enhance ,just take longer , the more complex motifs are usually avoided too . Funnily enough that's a point (no pun intended!) I was going to raise, the use of a natural cup like hole to start it off. If they did and there was more than one, the 'pattern' produced would have been random and may not have been important to them, just the cupmarks themselves. Does that tell us anything other than the obvious? No , it does us tell us something ,same as the important point that the rock surface often has a big input into what gets engraved . The assumption is often that the engraver approaches the canvas with a composition in their head that gets faithfully trasferred to the canvas .It doesn't seem that is what going on in many cases . It's more like jamming , you are constrained to an extent but not following anything prescriptive , you react to things as they appear to impose stuff . Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know. As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock . When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. We Honestly saw the energy in the rock at night once trippin on Ilkley moor and the next morning we were astonished to see the energy we had seen matched the rock art, the one thing i don't know about what i saw - is the rock art marking the patterns of energy in the rock or is the rock art shaping the energy in the rocks into the patterns of the artist? You saw the rock art first hand but before that had seen pics these influenced what you saw when tripping . If you have never heard of or seen the Buddha or Christ you won't dream about them or see them on trips . Your mind is creating the patterns that resemble rock art motifs it's just that you believe you are seeing energy patterns . Others believe they see energy patterns that look nothing like rock motifs , what they are seeing isn't energy either . like fuck, this isn't what happened at all and certainly isn't how my mind works,Ilkleys a very special place indeed, I was in their mainly unchanged landscape [maybe a few less trees] walked where they walked, ate what they ate, slept where they slept and saw what they saw, simple as that, learning from experience, you can't beat it, you should try it as it'll make your knowledge on the subject complete, without you'll never ever really know. Lots of things are "seen " and experienced whilst tripping .Where these experiences are useful , other than the sheer pleasure and interest , is that they tell us something about ourselves . Just because you saw a giant pink rabbit doesn't mean that there really was one there , no matter how realistic it may have seemed . Never had/seen anything silly, my mind isn't like that, it's as strong as you get, and everything i've been though is more real than this reality, this is very like the mayans belief [see you were right roy], this reality isn't quite as real as people think, we probably only experience 2 percent of true reality.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 19, 2012, 23:51
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tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Granite would take longer but it is not used too often .It does tend have lots of natural cup like holes that could help as a start i.e. they that just get enhanced . Although granite on granite would work with nothing to enhance ,just take longer , the more complex motifs are usually avoided too . Funnily enough that's a point (no pun intended!) I was going to raise, the use of a natural cup like hole to start it off. If they did and there was more than one, the 'pattern' produced would have been random and may not have been important to them, just the cupmarks themselves. Does that tell us anything other than the obvious? No , it does us tell us something ,same as the important point that the rock surface often has a big input into what gets engraved . The assumption is often that the engraver approaches the canvas with a composition in their head that gets faithfully trasferred to the canvas .It doesn't seem that is what going on in many cases . It's more like jamming , you are constrained to an extent but not following anything prescriptive , you react to things as they appear to impose stuff . Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know. As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock . When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. the communicatuon could be with the rock . Bloody hell his mind is opening. If anybody deserves the worthless "closed mind " comment it is believers , it's all they have to say to support their unlikley claims . What really matters is content . That's what i mean you don't usually have any! i've been impressed. You must be have misunderstood . On purpose, it's great for dealing with you, i now just pretend your being nice all the time, it's better for me that way.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 19, 2012, 23:57
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bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Granite would take longer but it is not used too often .It does tend have lots of natural cup like holes that could help as a start i.e. they that just get enhanced . Although granite on granite would work with nothing to enhance ,just take longer , the more complex motifs are usually avoided too . Funnily enough that's a point (no pun intended!) I was going to raise, the use of a natural cup like hole to start it off. If they did and there was more than one, the 'pattern' produced would have been random and may not have been important to them, just the cupmarks themselves. Does that tell us anything other than the obvious? No , it does us tell us something ,same as the important point that the rock surface often has a big input into what gets engraved . The assumption is often that the engraver approaches the canvas with a composition in their head that gets faithfully trasferred to the canvas .It doesn't seem that is what going on in many cases . It's more like jamming , you are constrained to an extent but not following anything prescriptive , you react to things as they appear to impose stuff . Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know. As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock . When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. the communicatuon could be with the rock . Bloody hell his mind is opening. If anybody deserves the worthless "closed mind " comment it is believers , it's all they have to say to support their unlikley claims . What really matters is content . That's what i mean you don't usually have any! i've been impressed. You must be have misunderstood . On purpose, it's great for dealing with you, i now just pretend your being nice all the time, it's better for me that way. I haven't changed .
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 20, 2012, 00:03
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bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Granite would take longer but it is not used too often .It does tend have lots of natural cup like holes that could help as a start i.e. they that just get enhanced . Although granite on granite would work with nothing to enhance ,just take longer , the more complex motifs are usually avoided too . Funnily enough that's a point (no pun intended!) I was going to raise, the use of a natural cup like hole to start it off. If they did and there was more than one, the 'pattern' produced would have been random and may not have been important to them, just the cupmarks themselves. Does that tell us anything other than the obvious? No , it does us tell us something ,same as the important point that the rock surface often has a big input into what gets engraved . The assumption is often that the engraver approaches the canvas with a composition in their head that gets faithfully trasferred to the canvas .It doesn't seem that is what going on in many cases . It's more like jamming , you are constrained to an extent but not following anything prescriptive , you react to things as they appear to impose stuff . Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know. As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock . When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. We Honestly saw the energy in the rock at night once trippin on Ilkley moor and the next morning we were astonished to see the energy we had seen matched the rock art, the one thing i don't know about what i saw - is the rock art marking the patterns of energy in the rock or is the rock art shaping the energy in the rocks into the patterns of the artist? You saw the rock art first hand but before that had seen pics these influenced what you saw when tripping . If you have never heard of or seen the Buddha or Christ you won't dream about them or see them on trips . Your mind is creating the patterns that resemble rock art motifs it's just that you believe you are seeing energy patterns . Others believe they see energy patterns that look nothing like rock motifs , what they are seeing isn't energy either . like fuck, this isn't what happened at all and certainly isn't how my mind works,Ilkleys a very special place indeed, I was in their mainly unchanged landscape [maybe a few less trees] walked where they walked, ate what they ate, slept where they slept and saw what they saw, simple as that, learning from experience, you can't beat it, you should try it as it'll make your knowledge on the subject complete, without you'll never ever really know. Lots of things are "seen " and experienced whilst tripping .Where these experiences are useful , other than the sheer pleasure and interest , is that they tell us something about ourselves . Just because you saw a giant pink rabbit doesn't mean that there really was one there , no matter how realistic it may have seemed . Never had/seen anything silly, my mind isn't like that, it's as strong as you get, and everything i've been though is more real than this reality, this is very like the mayans belief [see you were right roy], this reality isn't quite as real as people think, we probably only experience 2 percent of true reality. I only used the rabbit as an obvious joke . Believing what you described could equally be described as "silly " .
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 20, 2012, 00:16
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tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Granite would take longer but it is not used too often .It does tend have lots of natural cup like holes that could help as a start i.e. they that just get enhanced . Although granite on granite would work with nothing to enhance ,just take longer , the more complex motifs are usually avoided too . Funnily enough that's a point (no pun intended!) I was going to raise, the use of a natural cup like hole to start it off. If they did and there was more than one, the 'pattern' produced would have been random and may not have been important to them, just the cupmarks themselves. Does that tell us anything other than the obvious? No , it does us tell us something ,same as the important point that the rock surface often has a big input into what gets engraved . The assumption is often that the engraver approaches the canvas with a composition in their head that gets faithfully trasferred to the canvas .It doesn't seem that is what going on in many cases . It's more like jamming , you are constrained to an extent but not following anything prescriptive , you react to things as they appear to impose stuff . Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know. As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock . When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. the communicatuon could be with the rock . Bloody hell his mind is opening. If anybody deserves the worthless "closed mind " comment it is believers , it's all they have to say to support their unlikley claims . What really matters is content . That's what i mean you don't usually have any! i've been impressed. You must be have misunderstood . On purpose, it's great for dealing with you, i now just pretend your being nice all the time, it's better for me that way. I haven't changed . The only thing you should change is to understand that all things are said before they're proved, and therefore my lack of proof for something is the same as your lack of proof against it, and just because something isn't proved yet doesn't make it automatically wrong [you should keep an open mind], it sometimes just might be right, the way you understood the fissures and cracks that the rock art people sometimes seem to use and follow is the same but on a smaller scale as the bigger landscape, they saw it like this and so did you for a moment earlier, the real landscape is also full of faults and fissures and the faults, cracks, fissures, energy flows, waterflows, monuments, settlements and huts in the landscape are mirrored by the patterns on a lot of the rock art, it's all connected, that's what we're been told, i really think you know what i'm saying [i may be wrong though].
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Dec 20, 2012, 00:17
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bladup wrote: Sanctuary wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Granite would take longer but it is not used too often .It does tend have lots of natural cup like holes that could help as a start i.e. they that just get enhanced . Although granite on granite would work with nothing to enhance ,just take longer , the more complex motifs are usually avoided too . Funnily enough that's a point (no pun intended!) I was going to raise, the use of a natural cup like hole to start it off. If they did and there was more than one, the 'pattern' produced would have been random and may not have been important to them, just the cupmarks themselves. Does that tell us anything other than the obvious? No , it does us tell us something ,same as the important point that the rock surface often has a big input into what gets engraved . The assumption is often that the engraver approaches the canvas with a composition in their head that gets faithfully trasferred to the canvas .It doesn't seem that is what going on in many cases . It's more like jamming , you are constrained to an extent but not following anything prescriptive , you react to things as they appear to impose stuff . Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know. As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock . When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. We Honestly saw the energy in the rock at night once trippin on Ilkley moor and the next morning we were astonished to see the energy we had seen matched the rock art, the one thing i don't know about what i saw - is the rock art marking the patterns of energy in the rock or is the rock art shaping the energy in the rocks into the patterns of the artist? You saw the rock art first hand but before that had seen pics these influenced what you saw when tripping . If you have never heard of or seen the Buddha or Christ you won't dream about them or see them on trips . Your mind is creating the patterns that resemble rock art motifs it's just that you believe you are seeing energy patterns . Others believe they see energy patterns that look nothing like rock motifs , what they are seeing isn't energy either . like fuck, this isn't what happened at all and certainly isn't how my mind works,Ilkleys a very special place indeed, I was in their mainly unchanged landscape [maybe a few less trees] walked where they walked, ate what they ate, slept where they slept and saw what they saw, simple as that, learning from experience, you can't beat it, you should try it as it'll make your knowledge on the subject complete, without you'll never ever really know. Paul...all this 'enlightenment' and knowledge you claim to have gained over the years, how has it benifitted you? Are you a successful person because of it or has it held you back? You come across as a very thinking person but I get the vibes of a troubled one mixed in with it. By troubled I mean frustrated. I've been into the light and into the dark, and you'll get both from me sometimes, but mainly good, but i am troubled in the sense that wars, people hurting others [esp kids] and people hurting the earth [i hate massive quarries, they make me want to cry] makes me very upset and i feel a lot of pain in all those things [as you should], on a personal level you name it and i've or someone i care for has been though it, this has hardened me a lot [it would anybody that's been though what we've been though], it's the other side of life that i'm here for [spirit/soul world] you know what happened to me and it really did save my life, as i used to live a very wild life and spent most of it in various states, i certainly lived life to the full but because i was a real mess inside, i used substances to make me feel better, my experience changed that, it fixed me inside, put me in control, i then settled down [compared to before, i have only done things since now and again to learn and communicate from/with spirit] and had a family [something i'd not have been able to handle before] and have been great ever since but have had to battle a lot of real demons trying to hurt people i care for, this is the feeling you speak of, i know you know this but this was my life changing experience again [for anyone who doesn't know what i'm talking about] and the reason i'm talking to you now - I got into this world of stone circles and the like after a big trip on liberty caps [ it wasn't my first trip ], me and a friend had a life changing experience in lincoln at the spot we later built the stone circle, the mushrooms for some reason had gone purple but were still in perfect condition though, we brewed and drank the potion and went for a walk. When we got to the local park everything was glowing with life [ even though it was dark ] and then we seemed to pass though some sort of veil, i was looking around when my friend said paul, paul look at the stars, as i did every one of them linked together in a massive cosmic 3d jigsaw [ i saw all the stars of our solar system join together ] with that a hole appeared near taurus [ i later found the egyptians call this the duat- which means hole in the sky! ] and with that what can only be described as a dragon of energy came out of it, went up and then crashed back down, it pushed me gently to the floor, i laid there my friend leaning into the cosmic wind, i could see the particles passing right though him, and with that it finished, i couldn't move, i told my friend to lay down but he went and sat on the bench to think about what just happened, as he did great purple columns [ the same colour as the mushrooms ] came crashing down in a circle around me [ the later stones of the circle marked these columns ], as the last one crashed into place i started an inner journey, my friend later said he couldn't get into the circle, i was flying down a tunnel, i can only describe it as what it must be like falling from a building before you hit the ground, and bang i was there, everything was a brilliant white and all i could feel was pure love, i had gone from utter fear to utter love in a moment, i was laid down in pure peace when a figure of pure light appeared from my left, the whole place was light, but this figure was an even purer light, it didn't glow though, it was a brilliantly bright pure white light, the figure stood over me, bent over and shook its head, i could see no features but felt a smile just like you feel a smile from a loved one, it then bent over, it's legs either side of mine and touched me on the shoulder, all i can say to describe it would be cosmic love, i thought as it happened hallucinations don't touch you and make you feel like this, it then looked at me again and i felt another smile and it walked off to my right, and with that i was back in the park [ even though i know my body had never left ], as i got up i felt fixed inside [ i'd had a bad break up with a girl i had lived with and had been wild for a time and felt broken inside ] and at that point i knew i had a new life of happiness ahead, which i have had, my friend looked at me with excitement and said what the hell just happened, i said a miracle and we left that park both knowing all sorts about stone circles and that age [ before this i had only ever heard of stonehenge ] that we didn't know before we went to that park on that night [ this was oct 11 1997 ], we both knew that night that we had lots of wonderful places to visit and we've been visiting ever since, i believe the being that touched me to be a higher form of human, and it will always be my most treasured experience because i believe it saved my life, so therefore everything after [ my family ] i owe to that beautiful being of light on that oh so special night, truly life changing, all my love paul. Thanks for that Paul. You certainly opened up there. My life's been pretty straightforward compared to yours that's for sure. I've never questioned myself and never sought any form of drug to experience other things even though many of my mates during the late 60's/70's did with relish. I never ever once felt I needed to and still don't. I guess that must mean I live a contented life.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 20, 2012, 00:26
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tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: Sanctuary wrote: tiompan wrote: Granite would take longer but it is not used too often .It does tend have lots of natural cup like holes that could help as a start i.e. they that just get enhanced . Although granite on granite would work with nothing to enhance ,just take longer , the more complex motifs are usually avoided too . Funnily enough that's a point (no pun intended!) I was going to raise, the use of a natural cup like hole to start it off. If they did and there was more than one, the 'pattern' produced would have been random and may not have been important to them, just the cupmarks themselves. Does that tell us anything other than the obvious? No , it does us tell us something ,same as the important point that the rock surface often has a big input into what gets engraved . The assumption is often that the engraver approaches the canvas with a composition in their head that gets faithfully trasferred to the canvas .It doesn't seem that is what going on in many cases . It's more like jamming , you are constrained to an extent but not following anything prescriptive , you react to things as they appear to impose stuff . Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know. As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock . When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. We Honestly saw the energy in the rock at night once trippin on Ilkley moor and the next morning we were astonished to see the energy we had seen matched the rock art, the one thing i don't know about what i saw - is the rock art marking the patterns of energy in the rock or is the rock art shaping the energy in the rocks into the patterns of the artist? You saw the rock art first hand but before that had seen pics these influenced what you saw when tripping . If you have never heard of or seen the Buddha or Christ you won't dream about them or see them on trips . Your mind is creating the patterns that resemble rock art motifs it's just that you believe you are seeing energy patterns . Others believe they see energy patterns that look nothing like rock motifs , what they are seeing isn't energy either . like fuck, this isn't what happened at all and certainly isn't how my mind works,Ilkleys a very special place indeed, I was in their mainly unchanged landscape [maybe a few less trees] walked where they walked, ate what they ate, slept where they slept and saw what they saw, simple as that, learning from experience, you can't beat it, you should try it as it'll make your knowledge on the subject complete, without you'll never ever really know. Lots of things are "seen " and experienced whilst tripping .Where these experiences are useful , other than the sheer pleasure and interest , is that they tell us something about ourselves . Just because you saw a giant pink rabbit doesn't mean that there really was one there , no matter how realistic it may have seemed . Never had/seen anything silly, my mind isn't like that, it's as strong as you get, and everything i've been though is more real than this reality, this is very like the mayans belief [see you were right roy], this reality isn't quite as real as people think, we probably only experience 2 percent of true reality. I only used the rabbit as an obvious joke . Believing what you described could equally be described as "silly " . I ask no one to believe, that i believe and my family believe in me is all that matters, if the boot was on the other foot, i'd think you/i were a bit crazy, changed my whole life though and the way i saw everything [my eyes had been closed, now they were opened], i really had my life saved, only me and the people around me really know this, you would be mad yourself to believe someone you've never even met, it's you'll agree a strange way into this prehistoric world though, i had no interest before, but became obsessed straight after that one night.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Edited Dec 20, 2012, 01:19
Dec 20, 2012, 00:52
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Following the flow of energy in the rock or following and using "the fault lines" in the rock, see you do know.[/quote] As we don't know what the engraver imagined about the rock that is not visually obvious we can't comment . What we can see that obviously has an infuence on the engraver are the texture , slope , cracks and fissures and shape of the rock .[/quote] When I was at achnabreck a few years back (jumped the fence I'm afraid, simply couldn't resist) I was sat there dumbfounded, attempting to follow logical lines of thought to work out what it could have been that the people responsible were attempting to communicate, but I've come to think it is not an attempt at communication at all. If it were, why would not one individual throughout that entire time span have engraved a simple, naive, immediately recognisable image? With what Tiompan has said above, and bladup to some extent, I wonder if the answer lies closer to the natural "characteristics" of the rock (or whatever properties the rock was thought to hold) being enhanced. The rock being manipulated for use in some way, rather than any type of communication. [/quote] We Honestly saw the energy in the rock at night once trippin on Ilkley moor and the next morning we were astonished to see the energy we had seen matched the rock art, the one thing i don't know about what i saw - is the rock art marking the patterns of energy in the rock or is the rock art shaping the energy in the rocks into the patterns of the artist?[/quote] You saw the rock art first hand but before that had seen pics these influenced what you saw when tripping . If you have never heard of or seen the Buddha or Christ you won't dream about them or see them on trips . Your mind is creating the patterns that resemble rock art motifs it's just that you believe you are seeing energy patterns . Others believe they see energy patterns that look nothing like rock motifs , what they are seeing isn't energy either .[/quote] like fuck, this isn't what happened at all [i didn't know of the rock art for a start] and that certainly isn't how my mind works anyway, Ilkleys a very special place indeed, I was in their mainly unchanged landscape [maybe a few less trees] walked where they walked, ate what they ate, slept where they slept and saw what they saw, simple as that, learning from experience, you can't beat it, you should try it as it'll make your knowledge on the subject complete, without you'll never ever really know.[/quote] Paul...all this 'enlightenment' and knowledge you claim to have gained over the years, how has it benifitted you? Are you a successful person because of it or has it held you back? You come across as a very thinking person but I get the vibes of a troubled one mixed in with it. By troubled I mean frustrated.[/quote] I've been into the light and into the dark, and you'll get both from me sometimes, but mainly good, but i am troubled in the sense that wars, people hurting others [esp kids] and people hurting the earth [i hate massive quarries, they make me want to cry] makes me very upset and i feel a lot of pain in all those things [as you should], on a personal level you name it and i've or someone i care for has been though it, this has hardened me a lot [it would anybody that's been though what we've been though], it's the other side of life that i'm here for [spirit/soul world] you know what happened to me and it really did save my life, as i used to live a very wild life and spent most of it in various states, i certainly lived life to the full but because i was a real mess inside, i used substances to make me feel better, my experience changed that, it fixed me inside, put me in control, i then settled down [compared to before, i have only done things since now and again to learn and communicate from/with spirit] and had a family [something i'd not have been able to handle before] and have been great ever since but have had to battle a lot of real demons trying to hurt people i care for, this is the feeling you speak of, i know you know this but this was my life changing experience again [for anyone who doesn't know what i'm talking about] and the reason i'm talking to you now - I got into this world of stone circles and the like after a big trip on liberty caps [ it wasn't my first trip ], me and a friend had a life changing experience in lincoln at the spot we later built the stone circle, the mushrooms for some reason had gone purple but were still in perfect condition though, we brewed and drank the potion and went for a walk. When we got to the local park everything was glowing with life [ even though it was dark ] and then we seemed to pass though some sort of veil, i was looking around when my friend said paul, paul look at the stars, as i did every one of them linked together in a massive cosmic 3d jigsaw [ i saw all the stars of our solar system join together ] with that a hole appeared near taurus [ i later found the egyptians call this the duat- which means hole in the sky! ] and with that what can only be described as a dragon of energy came out of it, went up and then crashed back down, it pushed me gently to the floor, i laid there my friend leaning into the cosmic wind, i could see the particles passing right though him, and with that it finished, i couldn't move, i told my friend to lay down but he went and sat on the bench to think about what just happened, as he did great purple columns [ the same colour as the mushrooms ] came crashing down in a circle around me [ the later stones of the circle marked these columns ], as the last one crashed into place i started an inner journey, my friend later said he couldn't get into the circle, i was flying down a tunnel, i can only describe it as what it must be like falling from a building before you hit the ground, and bang i was there, everything was a brilliant white and all i could feel was pure love, i had gone from utter fear to utter love in a moment, i was laid down in pure peace when a figure of pure light appeared from my left, the whole place was light, but this figure was an even purer light, it didn't glow though, it was a brilliantly bright pure white light, the figure stood over me, bent over and shook its head, i could see no features but felt a smile just like you feel a smile from a loved one, it then bent over, it's legs either side of mine and touched me on the shoulder, all i can say to describe it would be cosmic love, i thought as it happened hallucinations don't touch you and make you feel like this, it then looked at me again and i felt another smile and it walked off to my right, and with that i was back in the park [ even though i know my body had never left ], as i got up i felt fixed inside [ i'd had a bad break up with a girl i had lived with and had been wild for a time and felt broken inside ] and at that point i knew i had a new life of happiness ahead, which i have had, my friend looked at me with excitement and said what the hell just happened, i said a miracle and we left that park both knowing all sorts about stone circles and that age [ before this i had only ever heard of stonehenge ] that we didn't know before we went to that park on that night [ this was oct 11 1997 ], we both knew that night that we had lots of wonderful places to visit and we've been visiting ever since, i believe the being that touched me to be a higher form of human, and it will always be my most treasured experience because i believe it saved my life, so therefore everything after [ my family ] i owe to that beautiful being of light on that oh so special night, truly life changing, all my love paul.[/quote] Thanks for that Paul. You certainly opened up there. My life's been pretty straightforward compared to yours that's for sure. I've never questioned myself and never sought any form of drug to experience other things even though many of my mates during the late 60's/70's did with relish. I never ever once felt I needed to and still don't. I guess that must mean I live a contented life.[/quote] We all go though different things and whats amazing about life is that everyones life and experiences are so different [even though governments try to make them all the same - born, school, work, family, retire - die], i really believe i've been here that many times that all my pastlives are bleeding into each other, that's why i claim to know a bit about this prehistoric world, i really remember bits, i remember lots of my lives and the strongest one is from the age when all human beings truly became like us now - the neolithic, a time when everything went right and wrong at the same time, because all of a sudden humans thought they were above nature and started to think of themselves as god like, this is where the shitty only one god idea originally came from long before christianity [in mans image and all that], it was the greatest [and the most exciting] time in human history but also the time when everything went wrong as well, but at the end of the day i know the glass is half full because i promise you everything will be alright in the end, so it's all good news from me on a big scale and this is what you get if you meet me [the positive], i do come across a lot more hard faced on here, i think it's because i've had to defend myself so much from the Tiompan/nigel/harryshill mob, i think you'd be surprised how "normal" i am in the flesh [i often am].
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Hob 4033 posts |
Dec 20, 2012, 01:20
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Now I'm coming late to the party here, and I've not read the zillions of other posts, so apologies if I'm contradicting or repeating info elsewhere in this thread. Yes it is possible to age new carvings to some extent. It takes bloody ages, patiently wearing down all the peckmarks. Then leave it outside long enough for a coating of yoghurt to turn into moss then lichen, and it'll look not new. And it can be possible to differentiate different periods of carving on the genuine article. Compare the newer motifs at Hunterhegh 1, where the newer carvings have a different kind of peck mark, and the old ones are very much more weathered, with Hunterheugh 2 a few yards away, and you can see old carvings that have been partially exposed to the elements, so the upper part of the panel looks worn, but lower parts of the same motif are fresh and show all the peck marks clearly.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Dec 20, 2012, 07:47
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Hob wrote: Now I'm coming late to the party here, and I've not read the zillions of other posts, so apologies if I'm contradicting or repeating info elsewhere in this thread. Yes it is possible to age new carvings to some extent. It takes bloody ages, patiently wearing down all the peckmarks. Then leave it outside long enough for a coating of yoghurt to turn into moss then lichen, and it'll look not new. And it can be possible to differentiate different periods of carving on the genuine article. Compare the newer motifs at Hunterhegh 1, where the newer carvings have a different kind of peck mark, and the old ones are very much more weathered, with Hunterheugh 2 a few yards away, and you can see old carvings that have been partially exposed to the elements, so the upper part of the panel looks worn, but lower parts of the same motif are fresh and show all the peck marks clearly. Hi Hob, a slight misunderstanding I fear because of my misswording. Apologies. For some reason I used the word 'aged' rather than dated! I was really asking if it was possible to date rock art not if it could be made to look older. On saying that, your description of the method of ageing brought more to the table so I thank you for that. I suppose there have been many forgeries over the years and some for no good reason. Any examples?
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