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ocifant
ocifant
1758 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 16, 2012, 19:42
postman wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a clueless bufoon, can I ask why exactly it is frouned upon to climb on stones, is it a respect thing, or are we seriously saying that a barely 11 stone bloke will break or wear down a several tonne capstone or standing stone.


But it's not one 11 stone bloke, is it? Let's say the stones have been in situ for 3000 years, give or take. Let's imagine that someone clambers up, say, once a week on average. In the Victorian era whole parties used to clamber on the stones at once - see the old photos, so once a week is probably a fair average.

That's roughly 150000 'rubbings', plus the same amount of 11 stone+ stresses being placed on the stones and their contact points.

Not so minimal now?
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 16, 2012, 19:46
ocifant wrote:
postman wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a clueless bufoon, can I ask why exactly it is frouned upon to climb on stones, is it a respect thing, or are we seriously saying that a barely 11 stone bloke will break or wear down a several tonne capstone or standing stone.


But it's not one 11 stone bloke, is it? Let's say the stones have been in situ for 3000 years, give or take. Let's imagine that someone clambers up, say, once a week on average. In the Victorian era whole parties used to clamber on the stones at once - see the old photos, so once a week is probably a fair average.

That's roughly 150000 'rubbings', plus the same amount of 11 stone+ stresses being placed on the stones and their contact points.

Not so minimal now?


Plus..what about those over 11 stone...will there have to be a weighbridge set up ?
postman
848 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 16, 2012, 19:49
thesweetcheat wrote:

To make a windshelter out of an upland cairns, you probably need a gang of strapping squaddies. It would take me a month to create a wind shelter out of one, by which time I would have died (of hypothermia, hunger, thirst or being carried off and eaten by an angry yeti).


Laughed out loud
(I dont like to abreviate)
postman
848 posts

Edited Jan 16, 2012, 20:10
Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 16, 2012, 20:00
Resonox wrote:
ocifant wrote:
postman wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a clueless bufoon, can I ask why exactly it is frowned upon to climb on stones, is it a respect thing, or are we seriously saying that a barely 11 stone bloke will break or wear down a several tonne capstone or standing stone.


But it's not one 11 stone bloke, is it? Let's say the stones have been in situ for 3000 years, give or take. Let's imagine that someone clambers up, say, once a week on average. In the Victorian era whole parties used to clamber on the stones at once - see the old photos, so once a week is probably a fair average.

That's roughly 150000 'rubbings', plus the same amount of 11 stone+ stresses being placed on the stones and their contact points.

Not so minimal now?


Plus..what about those over 11 stone...will there have to be a weighbridge set up ?


I suppose it depends on the stone too doesnt it, Avebury might get that number of visitors but not a single standing stone miles from anywhere, Pentre Ifan might get lots of visitors but not Garn Turne.
If it's a respect thing is it ok if no one sees you.
If one has no affinities with Christianity one might stand on the Alter to get a better look without offending the any parisheners (if theyre not there)or the deity
A big fat solid menhir that couldnt fall over in a tornado would surely not suffer from a child climbing on it and jumping into his dads waiting arms.
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 16, 2012, 22:17
postman wrote:
thesweetcheat wrote:

To make a windshelter out of an upland cairns, you probably need a gang of strapping squaddies. It would take me a month to create a wind shelter out of one, by which time I would have died (of hypothermia, hunger, thirst or being carried off and eaten by an angry yeti).


Laughed out loud
(I dont like to abreviate)


Hahaha!

This has been a thought provoking topic. hasn't it. I met up with a friend and visitor this morning to do a circuit of Avebury Henge - two things occurred to me (both raised here). Firstly how delicate the lichen is, my friend pointed out some that is normally only found by the sea but seems to be flourishing on one of the stones in the NW quarter of the circle. The second thing was Stone 73, which lies on its side by the eastern entrance to henge; it has in fact been been worn smooth over the decades by children sliding down it and people sitting on it. Subtle changes are on a par with dripping water but we know eventually water will change even a sarsen stone.
drewbhoy
drewbhoy
2550 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 17, 2012, 02:18
thesweetcheat wrote:
The cautionary tale for me would be Carwynnen Quoit, which fell down cos too many people climbed on it (I think).

To make a windshelter out of an upland cairns, you probably need a gang of strapping squaddies. It would take me a month to create a wind shelter out of one, by which time I would have died (of hypothermia, hunger, thirst or being carried off and eaten by an angry yeti).


All the more reason to eat butteries!
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 17, 2012, 08:43
postman wrote:
Resonox wrote:
ocifant wrote:
postman wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a clueless bufoon, can I ask why exactly it is frowned upon to climb on stones, is it a respect thing, or are we seriously saying that a barely 11 stone bloke will break or wear down a several tonne capstone or standing stone.


But it's not one 11 stone bloke, is it? Let's say the stones have been in situ for 3000 years, give or take. Let's imagine that someone clambers up, say, once a week on average. In the Victorian era whole parties used to clamber on the stones at once - see the old photos, so once a week is probably a fair average.

That's roughly 150000 'rubbings', plus the same amount of 11 stone+ stresses being placed on the stones and their contact points.

Not so minimal now?


Plus..what about those over 11 stone...will there have to be a weighbridge set up ?


I suppose it depends on the stone too doesnt it, Avebury might get that number of visitors but not a single standing stone miles from anywhere, Pentre Ifan might get lots of visitors but not Garn Turne.
If it's a respect thing is it ok if no one sees you.
If one has no affinities with Christianity one might stand on the Alter to get a better look without offending the any parisheners (if theyre not there)or the deity
A big fat solid menhir that couldnt fall over in a tornado would surely not suffer from a child climbing on it and jumping into his dads waiting arms.


For me it's a respect thing combined with the 'wear and tear' aspect. On saying that just how far does respect stretch to? I mentioned the West Kennet Long Barrow in a previous post. To me it is no different to grave in a churchyard that I also wouldn't walk on because of my respect for the dead even though I may not have known them personally. Yet, I will quite happily go into the barrow where the bodies actually were and spirit may well still remain! So I become a preacher on the one hand and a hypocrite on the other!
Avebury's Great Circle bank in another area of contention with regard to damage caused by the public, but are they seen as morons for walking along it and wearing it down? No they certainly aren't, but why not as our heritage is suffering badly there one could successfully argue. This would never be allowed at Stonehenge of course if the setup was similar so why Avebury?
It's all a question of balance for me and my slowly changing beliefs as I get older and more respectful of life around me and what our great ancestors left behind for our amazement. I've climbed Silbury Hill twice, would like to do it one more time officially but realise that if everyone was to do so then it would eventually lie in ruin. One of my great pleasures in life is to walk up Waden Hill and stand in awe of Silbury in all of its majesty. How could we possibly justify to our great grandchildren that our need to climb it in huge numbers was not a selfish act and we left behind a ruin for them and denied them that magical moment we so cherish today!
tomwatts
376 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 17, 2012, 10:02
...In many countries, sacred places are approached and experienced barefoot....

...Less damaging than hobnailed or cleated boots...

...Whatever the answer I don't think it's up to the individual to try to enforce a no climbing policy..... It's up to society as a whole...
Wiggy
1696 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 17, 2012, 11:43
You pretty much say what I would say. As a kid I went up Silbury loads with my Dad, and being from Amesbury I spent a lot of time as a youngster trampling Sonehenge and it's environs. I probably wouldn't do that now, but honestly, what do people prefer: The access at Avebury, or the horrible control at Stonehenge?
All the sites we love are dynamic, their uses have changed over the years, and I think people need to be allowed to connect with them rather than have them wrapped in cotton wool - with the best will in the World, this will result in some damage, but I guess we have to educate people out of the worst behaviours.
As for the sites being "Sacred", - well I've always had a sense of that myself, but they don't "belong" to any particular religion (any more than they "belong" to the archaelogists), and evidence for modern pagan practice being associated with these sites in the past is scant.
We need to be a bit more inclusive, get people to love their shared history, and the fact is that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Ok, I'm ready for a good telling off now! =;o)
Andrew Joseph
13 posts

Re: Climbing on Standing Stones
Jan 27, 2012, 10:59
This is an interesting subject ...

I think we need balance here as to touch and climb and feel is as much a way to engage as to look and contemplate... particularly for children and the young (I am old enough to have been able to have climbed all over stone henge as a child this had a profound effect on me my children have never been able to do this) I worry that if we are TOO precious if we make these site TOO distant? we just create a barrier to engagement with our history and culture...

BUT.. totally agree re litter and disrespectful behavior eg the story about tourists urinating inside a burial mound... shocking
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