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Gwass 173 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 13:07
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Sorry for starting such a morbid and depressing thread but here goes.... It got me thinking about the long term future of many of our ancient scared sites after seeing yesterdays publication of a study predicting the UKs population will soar to 80 million by 2051 a mere 40 yrs away and to god knows what in 100yrs! The greenbelt countryside is already dissapearing at a rate unprecedented in our history. This will rate will increase inconceivably if these numbers are to be believed as we are already short of housing. This will place huge pressure on prehistoric sites and landscapes and at the moment we don't seem to have the agencies to properly protect them. Yes we have English Heritage and it's regional equivalents but that only applies to scheduled sites and not whole landscapes which would have been held sacred. I was really after information and reassurance to be hopefeully corrected as it did worry me a lot, particularly as the surge in population will be driven by immigration and the offspring of previous immigrants who will not have the same vested interest as a 'native' (For want of a less controversial term!) in these sites as they don't represent their history/culture/ancestry so will not be as inclined to protect them. An even more worrying thought is the impact of rising religious extremism. We all know what the Christians tried to do to ancient sites, as this rises so does the risk of a repeat performance. As I say apologies for such a bleak thread but I thought it was valid to post as the destruction of many sites over the next 100yrs is a very possible outcome and a genuine concern. Any contrary thoughts would be most welcome! Please...
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StoneGloves 1148 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 13:20
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The long barrow called Toothill, in Bolton, is not recognised as an Ancient Monument. It doesn't even have a listing on here, as it's only been discovered five years ago. The archaeologists refuse to visit it as it isn't in a book and the local authority simply pretend it's not there. It has a forecourt, unaltered, and had a drystone facade. That facade has now been pulled down and mangled. I've got photographs, before and after, of course.
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Gwass 173 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 13:23
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Really, sounds outrageous? You'd think the archaeologists would be onto it in a flash. That's disgraceful. How badly damaged is it and was that by developing? Have you got any pics of it?
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tomatoman 8 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 13:26
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A GOOD and VALID thread. However, although it IS true that urban sprawl is invading green space in our land, the fact remains that we have SHEDLOADS of countryside available (if necessary). The key issue is the proportion of greenspace under the ownership of the monied few. Some will sell for dosh but most will not.........THAT'S why it feels like our greenspace is running out. As to the threat to our prehistory heritage......the prime threat will continue to be on large landed estates......even in the hands of the public sector like the Forestry Commission.
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Rhiannon 4259 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 14:33
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You said: "particularly as the surge in population will be driven by immigration and the offspring of previous immigrants who will not have the same vested interest as a 'native' (For want of a less controversial term!) in these sites as they don't represent their history/culture/ancestry so will not be as inclined to protect them. An even more worrying thought is the impact of rising religious extremism. We all know what the Christians tried to do to ancient sites, as this rises so does the risk of a repeat performance." I think you've been reading the Daily Mail / Express too much? Most immigration comes from Europe for one thing, they're not mad muslim extremists from afghanistan or something. And most people coming into this country live in cities, where there aren't any stone circles. And most sites in the countryside have been ruined by people nicking stone / ploughing them up, it's not those Dreadful Foreigners you've got to worry about surely. And they've already got legal protection if they're scheduled. And do you think these extremists of yours are going to have megalithic monuments on their minds any more than your average person in this country? Don't wind us all up even more eh.
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faerygirl 396 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 14:38
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Rhiannon wrote: You said: "particularly as the surge in population will be driven by immigration and the offspring of previous immigrants who will not have the same vested interest as a 'native' (For want of a less controversial term!) in these sites as they don't represent their history/culture/ancestry so will not be as inclined to protect them. An even more worrying thought is the impact of rising religious extremism. We all know what the Christians tried to do to ancient sites, as this rises so does the risk of a repeat performance." I think you've been reading the Daily Mail / Express too much? Most immigration comes from Europe for one thing, they're not mad muslim extremists from afghanistan or something. And most people coming into this country live in cities, where there aren't any stone circles. And most sites in the countryside have been ruined by people nicking stone / ploughing them up, it's not those Dreadful Foreigners you've got to worry about surely. And they've already got legal protection if they're scheduled. And do you think these extremists of yours are going to have megalithic monuments on their minds any more than your average person in this country? Don't wind us all up even more eh. Yeah, IMMIGRANTS are the problem! With their work ethics! And did you know they own all the banks that have put us in recession?? Thats the Polish that is! BNP sentiments I see. Heres your BNP sentiments for ya from Nick Eriksen, the BNP's London organiser ; "I've never understood why so many men have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the feminazi myth machine into believing that rape is such a serious crime ... Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal. "To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence. A woman would be more inconvenienced by having her handbag snatched. "The demonisation of rape is all part of the feminazi desire to obtain power and mastery over men. Men who go along with the rape myth are either morons or traitors." Export the immigrants and rape the women! Thats how you save Britain!
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faerygirl 396 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 14:41
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Sorry that was very off topic, but to cliam that immigrants are the cause of us losing ancient monuments is INSANE! Im guessing when you were talking about religious extremists you were refering to Muslims? I havnt seen many muslims smashing up stone circles but theres nothing like a bit of Daily Mail hype to get it all started. A woman in our stree has 7 kids. 3 of those kids already have a few kids themselves. THATS where your population is getting out of control. SHes white. And probably votes BNP.
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Gwass 173 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 15:05
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faerygirl wrote: Rhiannon wrote: You said: "particularly as the surge in population will be driven by immigration and the offspring of previous immigrants who will not have the same vested interest as a 'native' (For want of a less controversial term!) in these sites as they don't represent their history/culture/ancestry so will not be as inclined to protect them. An even more worrying thought is the impact of rising religious extremism. We all know what the Christians tried to do to ancient sites, as this rises so does the risk of a repeat performance." I think you've been reading the Daily Mail / Express too much? Most immigration comes from Europe for one thing, they're not mad muslim extremists from afghanistan or something. And most people coming into this country live in cities, where there aren't any stone circles. And most sites in the countryside have been ruined by people nicking stone / ploughing them up, it's not those Dreadful Foreigners you've got to worry about surely. And they've already got legal protection if they're scheduled. And do you think these extremists of yours are going to have megalithic monuments on their minds any more than your average person in this country? Don't wind us all up even more eh. Yeah, IMMIGRANTS are the problem! With their work ethics! And did you know they own all the banks that have put us in recession?? Thats the Polish that is! BNP sentiments I see. Heres your BNP sentiments for ya from Nick Eriksen, the BNP's London organiser ; "I've never understood why so many men have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the feminazi myth machine into believing that rape is such a serious crime ... Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal. "To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence. A woman would be more inconvenienced by having her handbag snatched. "The demonisation of rape is all part of the feminazi desire to obtain power and mastery over men. Men who go along with the rape myth are either morons or traitors." Export the immigrants and rape the women! Thats how you save Britain! WHOAAH Hold your horses for one second! I make a genuine & honest observation of a POSSIBLE outcome of a huge rise in the population and you insinute I am some brainless bigot who blames the countries woes on 'foreigners'! That demonstrates flaws in yourself actually, if at the slightest thing, you go into default setting of a full on defensive & completely unjustified PC rant! I'm accused of having "BNP sentiments "in line with a rape condoner! I would ask you to reconsider what I said and the tone it was made and hope you would realise that was a bit of an over reaction from you to say the least. I find that totally out of order, offensive and unhelpful. It's that stifling of genuine debate which is the cause of a lot of frustration right now.
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juamei 1557 posts |
Jul 14, 2010, 15:18
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Yes the cities will expand and yes some sites and greenery near them will be swallowed up. But will it be massively more than now? Not in the greater scheme of things I reckon. The wilderness areas will be more protected than now I feel and perhaps even the green rolling farmland will be more protected. Green belt near centres of population will suffer and certainly prehistoric sites on those even listed ones will be destroyed (but preserved in the record so no-one in power will complain or stop it). I find it hard to be within 50 miles of london now as thats about the limit that I find the green becoming less than the grey. Don't agree with the extremist analogy I'm afraid, if anything Britain is becoming more of a secular state with evey passing year. Godless heathens the lot of us.
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nigelswift 5530 posts |
Edited Jul 14, 2010, 16:25
Jul 14, 2010, 15:20
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Aye, you're right, the big factor is farming Rhiannon - and that's not a function of expanding towns, immigration or population rise but intense pressure placed upon fine British yeomen to cultivate intensively to produce dirt-cheap food for townies like us. Funnily enough we found a stonking example of how it works this morning (article pending). And it's not that the protection system is necessarily not in place, on paper, but that it's so gradual that people don't realise or don't care enough. 90% of bronze age barrows are now kaput. 75% of the remaining 10% are being destroyed right now. Who knows? Who cares? If it's anyone's fault it's the likes of us, who do know and do care! Barrows suffer death by a thousand cuts - each extra pass of the plough reclaiming the field, is worth a few quid in the farmer's pocket - until after thirty years he can bequeath his son a precious few extra acres, all beautifully flat and productive! (That's thirty specific crimes, under the Ancient Monuments Act, invariably witnessed but none of them reported by white Anglo Saxon middle class Guardian reading atheists!) ;)
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