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Tidying up offerings
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TheStandingStone
218 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 12:49
It is rubbish when it is left on someone's land without their permission. The farmer is perfectly within his rights to cut down a tree on his land if he wants to.
Mustard
1043 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 14:28
Littlestone wrote:

And until we all agree on that it might, perhaps, be best to see sites (within our own cultural tradition*) as being 'ours' only while we are there. In other words, apart from having a duty to be respectful to others who may be visiting a site at the same time as ourselves, we shouldn't deposit anything there that might offend those who follow (or anything that might damage the site) and we shouldn't take any material features (however small) away from a site when we leave.

I really struggle with this issue. On the one hand, I detest seeing sites littered with plastic crap, but on the other hand, we'd have no stone circles if our ancestors had adopted this philosophy and left woods and glades undisturbed. However much we debate the philosophy, I think most of it comes down to a degree of common sense, which most reasonable people should be able to agree on.

One other point (unrelated to the quoted post). I don't feel comfortable seeing references to "pagans" as a generic group. It's such a loose term that it's almost meaningless.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 18:07
Mustard wrote:

Whatever one's view on "offerings", the above statement is disingenuous. It was a farmer's arrogance and ignorance that led to a tree being chopped down.

I don't suppose anyone has a photograph of this tree prior to it's being "knocked down"??
Had the tieing and nailing of offerings etc caused the tree to weaken or be malformed and has anyone considered that the farmer may have had a perfectly good agrarian excuse for removing this tree from his land..(not that one springs to mind, I must admit)?...
However trees, shrubs and bushes are frequently removed from the land, my own bugbear is this new-ish hedge trimming fashion...not because it is destroying the hedge or anything sacred, but the nests and insects harbouring there(sacred in their own way as well as essential) are destroyed too, without so much as a by-your-leave or indeed complaint.
I daresay there will be a chorus of, "this tree was growing on sacred ground and had every right to be there and be venerated by all and sundry in whichever fashion they deemed suitable!!", and we will end up on the same track as another thread which more or less asked..."Who claims sacredness for a site/object/plant?"
Is it arrogance to say something isn't sacred or equally so to claim it is??
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Edited May 21, 2010, 18:39
Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 18:38
Resonox wrote:

However trees, shrubs and bushes are frequently removed from the land, my own bugbear is this new-ish hedge trimming fashion...not because it is destroying the hedge or anything sacred, but the nests and insects harbouring there(sacred in their own way as well as essential) are destroyed too, without so much as a by-your-leave or indeed complaint.
I daresay there will be a chorus of, "this tree was growing on sacred ground and had every right to be there and be venerated by all and sundry in whichever fashion they deemed suitable!!", and we will end up on the same track as another thread which more or less asked..."Who claims sacredness for a site/object/plant?"
Is it arrogance to say something isn't sacred or equally so to claim it is??


I wasn't going to comment in any depth on this discussion because like others have said it comes down to common sense and, to a certain extent, education. An example in my own case is that I have a collection of crystals but it was only when I read a book by wise wiccan Marian Green did I realise the harvesting of crystals was just further depleting the earth's fragile resources.

I totally agree about hedges both ancient and recent - the way they are often grubbed out is criminal - literally. Legislation was introduced in 1997 to protect them.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 18:46
tjj wrote:
I have a collection of crystals but it was only when I read a book by wise wiccan Marian Green did I realise the harvesting of crystals was just further depleting the earth's fragile resources.

Have you then returned the collection of crystals to Mother Earth???
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 20:02
Resonox wrote:
tjj wrote:
I have a collection of crystals but it was only when I read a book by wise wiccan Marian Green did I realise the harvesting of crystals was just further depleting the earth's fragile resources.

Have you then returned the collection of crystals to Mother Earth???


No, I haven't ... how would that help? I just won't buy anymore.
Littlestone
Littlestone
5386 posts

Edited May 21, 2010, 20:43
Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 20:40
I really struggle with this issue. On the one hand, I detest seeing sites littered with plastic crap, but on the other hand, we'd have no stone circles if our ancestors had adopted this philosophy and left woods and glades undisturbed.


Perhaps.

Not saying it was ever done, but strips of raw meat draped over stones and the branches of trees by our forefathers (and mothers) as offerings are probably as unacceptable to us now (even though it may have been done millennia ago and in accordance with the traditions of the time) as is the modern practice of hanging plastic from trees - in other words it's a question of what is perceived to be acceptable in any given context. So, what might be acceptable in the Buddhist or Hindu traditions is not necessarily acceptable in our here and now (though that might change).

One thing's for sure though, tat's on the increase. First time I ever went to the Swallowhead (fifteen years ago?) there was no tat there at all - well, I thought there wasn't. Sat there for a while listening to the stream and it was only when I glance up into the willow tree that I could see some delicately woven balls, stars and figures made from (hazel?) twigs suspended there. Think I'd find even that unacceptable now though. Just let things be I'd say. No need to add or subtract anything (unless it's an attempt to restore or conserve something or somewhere to what it might once have been).
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 21:11
tjj wrote:
Resonox wrote:
tjj wrote:
I have a collection of crystals but it was only when I read a book by wise wiccan Marian Green did I realise the harvesting of crystals was just further depleting the earth's fragile resources.

Have you then returned the collection of crystals to Mother Earth???


No, I haven't ... how would that help?


I don't know...but surely hoarding something ravished from the earth can't have any beneficial qualities, either for the earth or the holder as it is in effect keeping "stolen" items and they are not complete as they have been shattered from a whole.Returning them as an "offering" might help towards the replenishing of the earth's fragile resources.
megadread
1202 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
May 21, 2010, 22:33
tomwatts wrote:
Alfrede................So you'd leave the old settee recently left at "The Bullring"?


Is that still there. !
Bloody hell, some people don't know what they have.
If i was lucky enough to have a henge as close to my house as they do i'd become it's guardian. ; )
megadread
1202 posts

Re: Sort it out for gawd's sake
May 21, 2010, 22:42
nigelswift wrote:
If you've got one monument and two (or many) groups using it you have a shared monument.

If they disagree about how it should be used (leave stuff/remove stuff) you have a conflict with no chance either side can win.

So, you need a compromise solution. If EHand NT weren't so wimpish and anxious to suck up to the spiritual groups in preference to everyone else they'd have put up notices saying what is and isn't acceptable at places which THEY are responsible for.

Don't hurt the stones. Don't take tealights and candles anywhere near them (duh!) and don't leave the following tat: (list).


for the first time ever i agree with you Nigel, only problem is the list would be so long as to be obtrusive.
Most stupid offering i've ever seen was a receipt for 99p, can't remember what was bought, this was in WKLB.
Wtf is that all about. ?
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