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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Tidying up offerings |
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 09:22
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Here's anothe little thought, just for the sake of (no) argument..... Would it be OK for the local Avebury churches to bedeck the stones with holly and little baby Jesus's on Xmas Eve? Presumably, since they could cite every single one of the pro-offering arguments in support. Indeed, it would be far more acceptable since they'd remove them after 12 days.
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juamei 2013 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 09:28
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Snip, snap, snout, Our tale's told out. or in more common parlance, "Pull the other one, its got bells on it".
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 09:40
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The finer points of littering could include Chinese lanterns, cigarette ash and car exhaust! And if you think the popular sacred sites are bad - you should see the parks and back lanes of Newcastle ...
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 09:49
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Well, stuff left where it didn't oughta has no finer points I reckon, only fine words designed to excuse it. Holy moley, leave nothing but footprints, how come this thread isn't a universal confirmation of that principle and how come it's said to be more complicated than that? Who knows? There are a lot of bumble bees about. Thought they were nearly extinct.
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Resonox 604 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 10:46
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revnox wrote: "I'm not conversant with any" sorry I was under the misapprehension that you had already suggested that the harvest festival was one? " and would really appreciate which ones are meant....because it would only be guesswork on my behalf" sardonic with just a hint of throwing down the gauntlet. However I am surprised that one so erudite would need illumination, especially one who states "but I've always thought that the origins of Harvest Festival were derived from a seasonal sacrifice...glad to be proven wrong" after I had stated (I think we can consider innumerable 'ongoing' traditions regarding sacrifice and the seasons) admittedly I had seasons (not seasonal) and sacrifice in the obverse order. So no wonder you were perplexed! don't worry I will come to the crux of the matter soon. "We are talking about this country though...and I think, through reading your reply(feel free to correct me though)..that you are agreeing with me that the harvest festival might indeed be one of the oldest ongoing traditions" I do to some degree in terms of one of the oldest, 'one of' being the operable part! although I believe your exact words were "The Harvest Festival", although adopted by Christianity, is in fact a throwback to an older tradition...so quite possibly it is the oldest"ongoing" tradition" slightly different emphasis and yet it makes all the difference, wouldn't you agree? "one of the oldest" implies sharing it's antiquity with others! where as "so quite possibly it is the oldest" implies it is older than the others, makes all the difference doesn't it? get the gist? "like I say..the others which spring to(my) mind would only be speculation" Your original position was speculation also! That is exactly the point! you are speculating that one transformed or reinterpreted rite has a greater degree of veracity and a more authentic provenance, and why? It would appear because it fits neatly into your prescription of rites and offerings at sites. vested interest? it would appear so! "You could always start a new thread listing "The Oldest Ongoing UK Traditions"....I can think of 5 possibles...but it'd be interesting to see your list first so I can compare and contrast" Again the transparent attempt at challenges, how can you compare and contrast when you have already said " and would really appreciate which ones are meant....because it would only be guesswork on my behalf" this was on the same page for goodness sake, unless of course you were deceiving me to try and exploit my response, bad boy. "...and also to see what other readers think are suitable candidates for inclusion" Oh dear and we finish with the the school yard tactic of co-opting ones peers to bait..ever the sign of passive/aggressive and one that you have obviously no need to sell to a particular individual who pops up to snide (I would say he will be on next...but he just might avoid it now) Now that has been dealt with back to the list, but of course we will have to accept that none of these are exclusively British. Of course you knew that! Rites relating to water, offerings at sacred wells and springs. Rites relating to Death, offerings for the dead and relating to rebirth (as I am sure you are aware the harvest festival is inextricably linked to these) Rites relating to sacred areas whether geographical, mythical or to flora and fauna. Of course the list goes on and on. But of course the easiest course open to you now is to ask me to specify the particular rites.....so please do. Go on ask me? Sorry all got a bit confused with inclusions and exclusions of inverted commas and what was actual quotes of mine and replies from you ...so I'm not too sure what you are after here.....you do seem to be implying that there is some kind of gauntlet throwing going on...not at all...just curious as to why my posting of suggesting harvest festival should be classed as a possible oldest ongoing rite...can be accused of being deceptive or subjective(???that definitely escaped me)...and when I point out that it is only a possibility...and would be curious as to which other ones other people might see in this role, without giving any clues as to the ones I think might be, so as not to give sway anyone else's opinion...all suddenly boils down to a swipe at you....please don't feel offended...but it was a genuine offer to start a thread to name specific ongoing rituals which might be the longest standing in this country...whether adapted for modern use or not. One I had thought of(prepare to have opinions swayed) was the maypole dance....a very obvious mating/fertility rite which even the christians couldn't wipe out so it is now incorporated(and I hazard a guess...if that's permitted...very tamed down from the original) as part of Mayday festivals.
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Resonox 604 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 10:51
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thesweetcheat wrote: Are you two related? Evil twin and good twin maybe? :-) When I'm good,I'm very good.........................
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 13:03
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"There are a lot of bumble bees about. Thought they were nearly extinct". This is almost their most active period of the year - and there's many species and it's the most specialised ones that are disappearing first. Look for a bee key somewhere, and try to identify them. That'll keep you busy for the three months. I've a colony in my allotment shed - in an old mousehole. I saved one from death by exposure, which technically means I've become a beekeeper (just like Sherlock Holmes did). Only he kept honeybees rather than bumblebee. They recognise me and keep shed from marauders, perhaps.
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revnox 92 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 13:23
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goffik wrote: Aw, bless - sorry to dent your ego, old fruit, but I was replying to Juamei's post. It had nothing to do with anything you'd typed. If it had nothing to do WITH ANYTHING I had typed why was I a) quoted and b) part and parcel of the causation. So sorry to dent your powers of deduction, old fruit, but your assertion fails to stand up to scrutiny!
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revnox 92 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 13:27
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nigelswift wrote: The finer points of littering are as suspicious as the finer points of foxhunting and burglary methinks! I am sure you are correct Mr swift, as are the finer points of curtailing freedoms methinks.
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revnox 92 posts |
Jun 03, 2010, 13:28
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"The finer points of littering could include Chinese lanterns, cigarette ash and car exhaust! exactly, well said.
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