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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » HOW TO READ CHURCHES |
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Wiggy 1507 posts |
Sep 03, 2010, 01:23
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Just caught this on bbc4 - ok, not antiquarian but plenty to interest some here (it does acknowledge churches on older sites etc). I'm sure part one will be repeated. Well worth a look.
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Littlestone 4320 posts |
Sep 03, 2010, 06:06
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Wiggy wrote: Just caught this on bbc4 - ok, not antiquarian but plenty to interest some here (it does acknowledge churches on older sites etc). I'm sure part one will be repeated. Well worth a look. Excellent Wiggy. Many thanks for that! Link's here by the way - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tlwfb/Churches_How_to_Read_Them_Dark_Beginnings/
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Sanctuary 1547 posts |
Sep 03, 2010, 10:59
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Littlestone wrote: Wiggy wrote: Just caught this on bbc4 - ok, not antiquarian but plenty to interest some here (it does acknowledge churches on older sites etc). I'm sure part one will be repeated. Well worth a look. Excellent Wiggy. Many thanks for that! Link's here by the way - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tlwfb/Churches_How_to_Read_Them_Dark_Beginnings/ Thanks for the link, excellent programme well put together and very interesting.
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tjj 1677 posts |
Edited Sep 04, 2010, 15:09
Sep 04, 2010, 08:56
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Wiggy wrote: Just caught this on bbc4 - ok, not antiquarian but plenty to interest some here (it does acknowledge churches on older sites etc). I'm sure part one will be repeated. Well worth a look. I caught up with this on line late last night and yes I agree, a well made and interesting little 30 minute programme. The only thing I objected to was this first in the series being called 'Dark Beginnings' - it will probably prove to be the most watchable episode. The presenter, Richard Taylor explained that the first Christians did not build churches, these came post-Roman along with the edict to missionaries 'not to destroy pagan sites' which, as we know, is why there is so often ancient standing stones next to churches - Rudston was used as an example. A large part of the programme was spent at the church at Kilpeck in Herefordshire (St Mary's and St David's) which is thought to have been built over a 'holy' spring and has a stream flowing beneath it. It has three examples of the Green Man, a sheela-na-gig, and several mythical carved animals from the pagan world. Linked to this, Richard Taylor went to look the exquisite medieval bestiary which is something I've not seen before. I think perhaps the 'dark beginnings' started with the Normans who rebuilt most of the simple little Anglo-Saxon churches and further obliterated evidence of pagan sites in the process.
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Gwass 169 posts |
Sep 04, 2010, 11:59
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What an absolutely top programme. It illustrates superbly the evolution from "paganism" to Christianity and shows that the same native people merely adjusted from one to the other. It's as much a part of our heritage as prehistoric stuff despite the popular trend for many people to shun it or consider it an evil destructive influence on our "real heritage" as it's our particular interest. In my opinion we can't pick and choose, both are crucial in who we are today. I've seen a programme like this before examining the pagan symbolism in churches on 4OD Think it's called the History of the English Church or something, easy to locate on the history section. I think that's the only way to convert the people by using the pagan sites and symbols aka Green man, sheela na gig and christianising ancient sites, so embedded into the lives and beliefs of the people. Wish I'd sky+'d it.
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Littlestone 4320 posts |
Edited Sep 04, 2010, 13:57
Sep 04, 2010, 12:56
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It illustrates superbly the evolution from "paganism" to Christianity and shows that the same native people merely adjusted from one to the other. You might also be interested in this - http://heritageaction.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/a-7th-century-pagan-temple-at-lastingham/
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Resonox 488 posts |
Sep 04, 2010, 13:31
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Just a thought...inbetween the "pagan"(AKA druids by some) and before Christianity...the Romans were running the whole religious shebang....is there any evidence that the Roman deity system was adopted and carried on after the christians took over???
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moss 1985 posts |
Edited Sep 04, 2010, 15:49
Sep 04, 2010, 14:43
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Resonox wrote: Just a thought...inbetween the "pagan"(AKA druids by some) and before Christianity...the Romans were running the whole religious shebang....is there any evidence that the Roman deity system was adopted and carried on after the christians took over??? Do you mean the period after 410 ad, then what you have coming into the country is saxon paganism, Odin/Woden, the roman gods had probably been already smashed up by the locals ;) i.e.note the number of headless romans statues around in places such as Uley Bury (West Hill, a prehistoric shrine with a roman temple on top) and Bath. Roman stuff was reused in churches, interestingly Tockenham church has a roman healing god statue in one of its walls - don't know what was going on there, perhaps the christians thought it was St.Michael or something... Kilpeck church with all its pagan symbols was carved by the Herefordshire school of Romanesque sculptors, and represents a far wider canvas of carvings that are imitated from abroad... Paganism may lie behind a lot of the symbolic carvings but it was also an artistic interpretation as well...
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Resonox 488 posts |
Sep 04, 2010, 15:07
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Cheers for the answer...but as a lot of the christian teachers ended up coming along with the end of the Roman Empire..I just wondered if there was any evidence of adherents (or indeed militant supporters) of roman ways in the transitional period and beyond...it just seems like a long time for a religion to be ongoing then vanish to all extents and purposes. I know Romans re-used certain sacred sites(groves,springs,standing stones etc) in honour of their own deities and churches even sprung up on those sites(Saxons then Normans)...and some of these churches have romanic stones and carvings integrated in them.To my mind it seems strange that a religion should vanish so completely,after all there are people who follow druidism today despite the Roman claims to have obliterated the system. I think one Time Team discovered a Christian burial with Roman deity inscriptions on the inside of the grave..obviously the relatives were still hedging the "entry into the afterlife" bets by not going entirely with one or the other.
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nigelswift 5458 posts |
Sep 04, 2010, 20:24
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"Kilpeck church with all its pagan symbols was carved by the Herefordshire school of Romanesque sculptors, and represents a far wider canvas of carvings that are imitated from abroad..." Just got back from there! Blimey.
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